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PS4's VR Headset Not as "High-End" as Rift, Palmer Luckey Says

Plus, Luckey says he gave the PlayStation VR team a demo of Rift sometime in 2012 or earlier.

429 Comments

Oculus Rift creator Palmer Luckey has spoken out to say PlayStation VR "isn't quite as high-end" as the Oculus Rift, though he still described the competing device as a "good headset."

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His comments came as part of an interview with IB Times, in which the interviewer suggested that PlayStation VR is the one headset best poised to compete with Rift. Luckey partially agreed, but also pointed out that Rift and PlayStation VR are catering to different markets.

"That might be true," he said when asked if PlayStation VR was Rift's biggest competitor. "I think that there's not many people who already own a PS4 who don't own a gaming PC who are going to go out and make that roughly $1,500 all-in investment in the Rift. It really is a separate market. They're bringing virtual reality to a different group of people who I don't think were ever really a part of our market anyway."

Luckey added: "It's also worth noting that their headset isn't quite as high-end as ours--it's still, I think, a good headset--and the PlayStation 4 is not nearly as powerful as our recommended spec for a PC."

Rift requires a capable gaming PC. PlayStation VR is powered by the PS4, which is already in the homes of many millions of people around the world.

Also in the interview, Luckey reveals that he invited some Sony VR engineers to come see Rift before the device's Kickstarter campaign started in 2012. Giving Sony a peek at what Oculus was making at such an early stage was part of Luckey's drive to help VR, as a medium, finally take off in a meaningful way.

"I knew some people at Sony working on VR before I even started my Kickstarter campaign, actually, and we brought them in early on to show them what we were working on, to talk about what the minimum standards were for a good VR experience," he said. "What does it take to make something that won't make people uncomfortable and won't turn people off of virtual reality?

"That's really the most important thing, is to not poison this well for all of us in the future, and I think they understand that. They also understand the importance of content, and they've been doing a lot of work making sure there's a lot of VR games."

Just this week, Sony boss Kaz Hirai said that more than 200 developers have signed up for the PlayStation VR development program, with more than 100 games projects said to be underway.

Earlier this week, Oculus announced that the first Rift consumer model will cost $600. Sony has not announced the price point for PlayStation VR, though that information should come relatively soon, as the headset is scheduled to ship in the first half of 2016. With regards to the price, PlayStation executive Shuhei Yoshida previously said Sony's aim was to go "as low as possibly can be done."

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hvd2222

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it wont be $600 either.to use the rift $1500 pc+$600 head set.to use psvr $350+$400 im guessing maybe $500 just to under cut.thats still a hel* of a price difference for vr.pc master race has to pay $2100 to vr..lol

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Psionacles

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@hvd2222: wrong http://pcpartpicker.com/user/psionicinversion/saved/#view=XmYxFT

doesnt look like $1500 to me

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JoshRMeyer

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@psionacles: $1500 is the built price, with warranty, etc. Like you get with a ps4. Not everyone wants to build their own PC.

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Psionacles

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Edited By Psionacles

@joshrmeyer: well doesnt cost that much can build one from cyberpower with a i5 6600K skylake CPU for $1300 with water cooling including windows 10 but end of the day youll be paying hundreds of dollars more just to save a bit of time. All components come with a warranty anyway

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hvd2222

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@psionacles: i dont argue with idiots.

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Psionacles

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@hvd2222: or do you mean dont argue with people that proves you wrong!

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hvd2222

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@psionacles: na just with idiots that think they are right.any retard can list parts..lol

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Psionacles

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@hvd2222: "Any idiot can list parts"... the parts you need for the oculus' listed spec that massively under the $1500 you stated... yeah ok hahaha could put 2x 980's in that for $1500. stay salty, and its not hard to put the pc together either. 1 hour to build it

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hvd2222

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@psionacles: they said it themselves.did they lie just like they did about the price?

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/oculus-palmer-luckey-on-oculus-rifts-price-number-of-games-pc-requirements-more/

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Psionacles

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Edited By Psionacles

@hvd2222: you do realise you just linked to an article that proves you wrong?

“Earlier last year, we started officially messaging that the Rift+Recommended spec PC would cost roughly $1500."

End of paragraph "For that vast majority of people, $1500 is the all-in cost of owning Rift."

hahaha think you should read what stuff actually says fool

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hvd2222

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@psionacles: no i linked an article proving YOU wrong.i guess you didnt read it.you read just what you wanted to..lol

But what about its PC requirements? Oculus recommends an NVIDIA 970 or an AMD 290 for the Oculus Rift. However, these GPUs will not be able run all triple-A games at max settings, something that really does not surprise us.

“You won’t necessarily be able to play all games at MAX settings on the recommended spec. You will be able to play everything in the Oculus store at a high quality level (90 FPS) on the recommended spec.”

you need at lleast a $1500 pc to max settings in the Oculus rift.the 970 and 290 are minimum requirements ..lol learn to read an article.you will need at least a 980 ti is not more to max out the rift with 90fps..if you use just a gtx 970 enjoy you crap 720p vr..lol...common sense is hard for some people i see...lol

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Psionacles

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@hvd2222: No you said you need to spend $1500 just on a PC to use the rift which is complete BS as i proved. You never said for max settings!! So you are wrong but of course you cant stand it. 720p VR hahah yeah right thats for the playstation

the 970 and 290 arent minimum requirements at all. If a 970/290 can run it on high a lesser GPU can run it on medium or low. Not hard is it dumb fool. 970/290 is specifically a performance standard for developers to target and thats it.

Your the one thats needs to read his own stupid comments! and seeing as this forum has a timer you cant go back and change anything youve posted to suite the arguement hahaha

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hvd2222

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@psionacles: good luck with that...lol

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Psionacles

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Edited By Psionacles

@hvd2222: im not buying this gen of GPU's cus its not powerful enough for what i want im getting the new 16/14nm GPU's with immense power.... no problem running VR as well as what i want .. aww sob sob cry cry poor HIV123

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hvd2222

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@psionacles: rolf!!!!!!!

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hvd2222

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@psionacles: lol

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TetraSky

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@hvd2222: Didn't the price of the PSVR leak on Amazon ? It was something ridiculous like $800 USD.

Why would anyone pay more than double the price of the console itself... just for the sake of playing on a potato at 30fps. Invest that money in a PC, you'll be better off.

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lamanuwa

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Edited By lamanuwa

@tetrasky: Lol. Amazon listed the PS4 at US $ 999.00 before the actual price announcement by the manufacturer of the product. Get it?

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hvd2222

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Edited By hvd2222

@tetrasky: they wanted 60-80 fps for psvr.if its $600 its still cheaper then the rift but the bad thing is most ps4 owners cant get it.also it takes a $1500 pc to run the rifr.so $1500+$600=$2100 to use so you saying buy a $1500 pc then spend $600 is better then $600 psvr with a $350 console.ps4 will still be the cheaper vr.

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Psionacles

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@hvd2222: more lies from a console peasant

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RADEON2

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Edited By RADEON2

I think they forget that, the PS4 is ONLY meant to play games as high as 1080p, not 2160×1200 or 1080p per eye is. So that gives PSVR 960x1080... i see no issue here. PSVR not meant to go past 960x1080, per eye because that means that the system will have to output a res of something such as 2160×1200 and just because it has a lower res, does not mean it won't look as good. While PC's may out number PS4, the PC's needed to run the rift is a smaller number, while still high than that of PS4's, and those who actually dropped the cash for one of these said PC's, who are now willing tho drop the cash on the rift, me being one of these PC gamers, is wayyy smaller than PS4's 35 million. Anyone who has a PS4, already has the needed hardware, they just need the headset.

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Daveccarsley

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Edited By Daveccarsley

@RADEON2:

WAIT.....WAIT.....STOP RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!!!

Are you actually a person who knows what they're talking about???!!

Are you truly a reasonable human who sees that both of these systems are fantastic VR options, and even though the Rift may be slightly "better" than PSVR, it doesn't mean the PSVR is like strapping a used litter box to your face?

Are you an intelligent human who understands that differences in products doesn't make one of them a complete and utter garbage waste of money joke??

What in the HELL are you doing in an internet comments section?

We don't like your kind around here boy.

Edit: I must call you out on one small thing though-

"the PC's needed to run the rift is a smaller number, while still high than that of PS4's"

If in that ^^ sentence, you're saying that you believe there are more "Rift capable" PCs than there are PS4s, you'd be very wrong.

Not calling you "stupid", like most internet commenters enjoy doing..... just "wrong", which we all are on occasion.

There are roughly 13-15 Million "Rift capable" PCs in the wild.

There are roughly 36 Million "PSVR Capable" (all of them) PS4s in the wild.

The numbers are both very "big" numbers, but aren't really close.

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megakick

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Edited By megakick

@daveccarsley: PS4 can do 1080p at 60fps maybe but the games has to be very undemanding so that is 1080p at 30fps in VR then you have to figure there will be calibration to fix lag....

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nikon133

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@megakick: That was already covered.

PSVR will generate a frame between each two frames generated by PS4. I'd expect that it is not far off from 100Hz tech in TVs, which creates 100Hz PAL from native 50Hz PAL (or 120Hz from native 60Hz NTSC). Sony is, after all, a TV maker, and tech has been used on TVs for quite some time - so they should have some decent hands-on experience.

So basically, all we need here is stable 30FPS output from PS4, and PSVR will make 60FPS out of it. From what I have read so far, the output quality is quite good - of course you'd see difference between real and injected frames if you freeze motion and analyse each frame, but in motion, it is claimed to be looking fine - at 6 frames flashing every 1/10th of a second in front of our eyes, our brains will be challenged to register imperfections on those injected frames.

Games easier on hardware will probably aim for 60fps native - 120fps final output. I don't know if PSVR can generate more than one in-betweener, as in generating 90 or 120fps out of native 30fps. I'd say at least 120Hz should be possible - generate mid frame, then generate one more mid frame between already generated frame and native frames before and after it.

Now... interesting question for me here is lag. Basically PSVR needs to wait for 2nd native frame in order to generate mid frame, so basically there will always be lag of 1 frame from 60fps stream. That shouldn't be of importance, especially if it is synced with equal lag on controller input... so I'm guessing "handicap" will be purely academic, but I'm sure we will be seeing people claiming that in competitive multiplayer, PSVR lag is giving advantage to people who play without it ;)

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Daveccarsley

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Edited By Daveccarsley

@megakick:

And again... Someone who has NO idea what they're talking about.

Someone who thinks they're smarter than aaaaaalllll those engineers at Sony with all their masters degrees.

Someone who thinks that a multi-billion dollar corporation is actually stupid enough to put out a VR headset running at 30FPS.

Again, someone who's not tried it, commenting on what it's like.

Again, someone who's done ZERO research into the product talking like they "know".

Go Google "PSVR processor"

Why is it so hard for so many people to say....

"Ya know. I don't really know anything about it. I haven't tried it, nor researched it, so I haven't really got anything to say"

When you don't know anything about something, it's ok to say "I don't know".

Who raised you people? Who educated you?

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deactivated-5c2415ad0d4d0

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@daveccarsley: PSVR is Utter garbage, here I said it.

Imagine taking a 30 FPS full HD PS4 game and lowering it settings so it runs at 90fps

Enjoy PS2 era graphics. in VR

Now imagine 900P 30 FPS PS4 game, yeah you got my drfit, lower the graphics to the point it runs full hd and 90 fps

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lamanuwa

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Edited By lamanuwa

@Benny_a: All I can say is all of them (PSVR, RIFT, VIVE) are just an introduction of VR (They will all have PS2 style games to begin with which will get better). They meet the minimum requirement for immersive VR from criteria the industry has decided on as a collective based on real people trying VR.

As you may already be aware a lot of very smart people with industry experience have been working on PSVR since 2010, and the PS4 actually contains some really unimaginably neat features built into it in order to facilitate this. The Processing Unit is also a very clever device, it offloads color calibration, HRTF, Time-Warp, etc to a separate unit, sampling at higher rates (than traditional CPUs ever can) using customized DSPs.

But these people also understand very clearly, they can't sell the PS4 for $900 and PSVR for $600 and expect VR as an industry to thrive. If you are unable to show a rapidly increasing install base you can't incentivize developers and publishers to make games for it.

What you are essentially doing is arguing against industry experts, if you feel you are correct you should point these issues out to us at GDC this year. if you don't feel like an expert as I do I'd wait to try all of them before I pass judgement on either.

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Daveccarsley

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@Benny_a:

Which demos did you get to play the times that you tried PSVR?

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deactivated-5c2415ad0d4d0

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@daveccarsley: None. I dont need to shove my d**k into fire to know its going to burn.

They OFFICIALLY announced that the Minimum FPS for unpukable game play on PSVR is 90FPS.

90 freaking FPS, now do the math.

If you take a modern game that runs on PS4 at 900p/1080p @30fps and you want it on PSVR, how its going to look in Full HD and 90 FPS?

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Daveccarsley

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@Benny_a:

"how its going to look in Full HD and 90 FPS?"

Well I'm not an engineer, but if I were, I'd probably...

Ship it with an extra processor.

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deactivated-5c2415ad0d4d0

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@daveccarsley: Thats why your not an engineer, the only expansion PS3 has is USB3.

For extra GPU you need something like PCIe Gen1 x16 and for CPU im not sure PCIe Gen3 x16 is enough and that's the fastest we currently have on the most latest PC's and its used for GPUs.

So you cant just add extra CPU, you can add extra GPU but not through USB3.0.

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nikon133

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Edited By nikon133

@Benny_a: They are not talking about CPU and GPU in a PC design means, and solution is not anything like Crossfire/SLI.

PU is DSP (Digital Signal Processor)... I'm thinking of it as something like standalone SPE from PS3 CEL, hardcoded to calculate mid-frames - and not much else. It will be working with data that goes through HDMI. PS4 has HDMI 1.4 which allows for two independent 1080p streams, and is spec-ed with 3D in mind. PU will separate streams and generate mid-frames for both displays in PSVR.

USB connection, I'm guessing, is for feedback - sending movement data from PSVR sensors back to PS4. Bluetooth (3 Mbit/s) is probably too slow for this, thus good old wired USB3 (480MBit/s) link.

PU has both HDMI input and output. Output should be just pass-through, for TV connection... so that gamers don't have to fiddle with cables whenever they want to switch between TV and PSVR. I expect that TV will be functional even if gamer is using PSVR - for "audience", or for local multiplayer. not perfect as only man of the house will have VR, but better than no local multplayer, I guess.

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Daveccarsley

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Edited By Daveccarsley

@Benny_a:

Is it? Whew. I'm glad I'm not going to use my PS3 for VR then.

You may be just about the dumbest person I've ever met online, and that's saying a lot.

You're telling me that YOU, ol' Benn-o-rama knows more than some of the best tech brains on the planet who designed this "can't exist" thing.

You're telling me, despite Sony saying there's an extra processor, it can't be done.

You're telling me that they went and showed these awful, terrible, horrible graphics (or a machine that will make everyone sick) to Sony's CEO, and he said, "Oh hell yeah, put millions of bucks into that, then take it on the road and show the public".

You're telling me that Sony's R&D tried a Rift, and a Gear VR, and a Vive, saw that their product is far, far, unbelievably, incomparably worse than all of them, that it looks like absolute shit, and that it makes people sick, and said...

"go with it. Yeah, they'll never notice that they're projectile vomiting all over their fucking living room floors cause they'll have a headset on. Muhahahaha, let's put the company on the line for this"

You're telling me that all those folks who have actually tried PSVR (including me, others in this comment section, and reps from virtually every single video game and tech publication in the world) and give it absolutely rave reviews.... Are wrong, and Benny is right.

You're telling me that despite the fact that we've viewed this exact extra processor, IN PERSON, and that hundreds of publications have detailed its existence, and that myself (along with Forbes, Gamespot, IGN, Kotaku, New York Times, CNET, Washington Times, Dual Shockers, VG 247, Game informer, 100s of YouTubers and so many more) have held it in our hands...... It's not real, nor even possible. What we saw was fake, and we're alllll lying to you..... Because, uhhhh, Sony paid us all to fool the world?? We're all part of the nasty trick to lie to Benny??

Do you even realize how stupid you sound? Holy shit. You take "internet idiot" to a whole new level, and that's....well.... That's actually really amazing.

USB can't handle that much data that quick eh? Is that why the Accelerometer and sensor inside my Gear VR headset (which improves on the phones latency by a factor of about 100X, making it sub 18ms) runs through mini-usb TWO? Is that why my phone streams 2K video perfectly through my USB 2 port and into my TV?

Why did Luckey say it was a pretty good headset if it's just going to make everyone sick, or have graphics rivaling Duck Hunt?? Is he stupid too? Or just being nice and giving his rival some sales?

Have you even looked up any fucking videos of these demos and compared them to "PS2 graphics"?

Have you even read ANY reviews from those whom have tried it?

Answer these questions, or don't. I don't care. I can't lower my brain power enough to respond to you again.....

Once we reached the point where YOU, Mr. Benny-in-the-comments-section, have declared that the extra processor that I've held in my hand during my time demoing and reviewing the headset, and which has been detailed, even down to its physical size, by hundreds of publications, (who all say that it makes the experience fantastic)....... Is IMPOSSIBLE, that it doesn't exist, that it CAN'T exist.....

Once we get to that point, we're no longer having a rational discussion or disagreement. This has now devolved into a short-bus, conspiracy theory, low brainpower, moronic, one way conversation. One in which I'm tasked with proving to you, that something that's been fully detailed, seen, touched, felt, measured and used by hundreds, or thousands of people, and of which as many pictures of have been taken and posted...... Doesn't.... not exist?

Once we get there, I can no longer respond. This has become far too stupid to utilize my limited time on earth arguing.

Mr. Everone-is-lying-to-you-Benny, I bid you farewell sir.

Edit: I actually forget to mention some of the other people who aren't as smart as you. Specifically developers, big ones, like CCP, Ubisoft, Three One Zero, nDreams, Harmonix, Supermassive Games, Capcom, Tekken Team (Bandai Namco), Kojima Productions, and oh my god so many, many more.

BENNY, THEY NEED YOUR HELP!!!!! THEY DON'T KNOW THE EXTRA PROCESSOR IS FAKE!!!

Hurry, call them Benny. Oh my god. These super successful developers have been fooled by Sony with their crappy headset with the worst graphics in the world. If you have a heart at all, you better call them and tell them it's all a lie before they completely sink their companies by releasing......

• Atom Universe

• Adrift

• Allison Road

• ARK: Survival Evolved

• Among the Sleep

• The Assembly

• Battlezone

• Crystal Rift

• Danganronpa VR

• Dead or Alive Xtreme 3

• Dead Secret

• Dynasty Warriors 8 VR

• The Deep

• Dreams

• Driveclub

• The Earthlight Project

• EVE: Valkyrie

• Final Fantasy XIV Heavensward

• Futuridium

• Get Even

• GNOG

• Godling

• Gran Turismo Sport

• Harmonix Music VR

• Hatsune Miku Project

• Headmaster

• The Hum

• IOMoon

• JoysoundVR

• Jurassic Encounter

• Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes

• Loading Human

• The London Heist

• Megaton Rainfall

• Mind: Path to Thalamus

• Omega Agent

• Paranormal Activity VR

• P.O.L.L.E.N

• The Playroom VR

• Project CARS

• Q.U.B.E.²

• Rigs: Mechanized Combat League

• Robinson: The Journey

• Summer Lesson

• Superhypercube

• Surgeon Simulator

• Synthesis Universe• Technolust

• Tekken 7

• Trackmania Turbo

• Until Dawn: Rush of Blood

• Vanguard V

• VizionEck

• War Thunder

• Wayward Sky

• World War Toons

By the way, that's a list from 3 months ago, but you can start by saving those idiots from themselves!

Thanks Benn-ster. Your services are invaluable to keeping the Billion dollar video game industry afloat.

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deactivated-5c2415ad0d4d0

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@daveccarsley: You went full retard, never do that, but let me guess your a teenager.

Learn English first, Processing is not equal to additional CPU or GPU.

When your TV outputs a signal its also PROCESSING It.

Quote:

"Sony calls the small box a “PU”, short for “Processing Unit”. The box makes sure that the signal coming from the console is accurately transformed into a proper VR signal for the headset, and it also helps convert the footage into 120Hz.

Additionally, it makes sure that the TV can still display the image while the VR headset is in use — so that when someone is playing a VR game using PlayStation VR headset, the TV will display a mirrored image of the game for any spectators to follow what’s going on.

The PU box also provides power to the VR headset. The headset itself features a low-latency 1920 X RGB X 1080 display."

Talk to me when you grow up in 20 years, maybe then youll understand the difference.

P.S. I never said your going to puke, I said that the graphics going to suck even more then its already is, going from 30FPS to 90FPS (thats official spec for PSVR, 90FPS).

All the demos you played are nothing more then simple demos and gimmicks, played anything with at least Uncharted level of graphics? ha, what did you said??? NO

PSVR is poor mans Vive and Rift.

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Rucio

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@Benny_a: "Learn English first, Processing is not equal to additional CPU or GPU."

Ahahahahahahahahahaha, you can't even use (you're) and (your) correctly and you wanna school other people,

Don't bother to reply, I'm not going to read it. Enjoy your own trash talk lmao.

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deactivated-5c2415ad0d4d0

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@rucio: What a way to lose an argument! Loser.

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Rucio

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@Benny_a: lose* loser*

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deactivated-5c2415ad0d4d0

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@rucio: A loser and a grammernazi, could of guessed that English is not my native language, not even second.

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Rucio

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Edited By Rucio

@Benny_a: I speak 3 languages, yet still I could get something like you're and your correctly. Come again loser? :)

Oh and it's grammar, people like you so easy to pick on, just because you think it's safe hiding behind your keyboard.

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deactivated-5c2415ad0d4d0

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@rucio: HAHA, picking on me? wow, try again. No one cares about spelling online, no one...but Virgins.

What you just tried to do is a typical loser/virgin strategy, when you lose an argument shift to grammar, that's because its the ONLY thing you good at, nothing to be proud about, here get a cookie.

And I speak 4 languages, so what now do i get a medal?

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Rucio

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Edited By Rucio

@Benny_a: Yes because calling others loser is a proud thing to do, keep up the good work man! /slowclaps

Have I actually tried to start an argument? LOL you have reading problems all I did was correcting your (This is how you use 'your' please take note!) grammar and you called me loser, talk about ungrateful douchebag lol. If you wanna win an argument go ahead and take it lmao, your mom must be proud of you.

Ooooh bringing up the virgin talk hah, because that's all you asswipes ever could bring up, calling people virgins and losers, you're funny, hoped you'll pass the clown test. ^^ I honestly doubt you can speak 4 languages, people who are multilingual are smart people but you don't look like one, sorry. :(

Before I forget, here, take that medal of douchebaggery, you deserved it! Be sure to display it properly :D /thumbsup

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@rucio: Oh, i just noticed your not even the guy I was arguing with about PSVR!!!

What you did was the most serious offense you can commit in online discussion!! When 2 people argue a 3rd party shoves in and talks about their grammar!

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Rucio

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@Benny_a: Yes yes, sorry, my grammar nazi impulse, good day to you sir!

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GamerYnoX

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And consoles aren't as "high end" as PCs. Does that stop people from playing consoles? If the games and price are right the PSVR could sell a lot.

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nNFL2K

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Edited By nNFL2K

@GamerYnoX: Consoles like PS4 are actually higher or similar in spec to many gaming PC's, most specifically many pre-builts. It's a myth that all gaming PC's are technologically superior and that every PC user has one that is. In reality, the average PC user is not on a monster rig, not even close.

But to put this into proper perspective, a console and a PC are not the same device and really shouldn't be compared unless you're talking pre-built PC to console. Makes better sense because an upgraded PC is not pre-built like a console.

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GamerYnoX

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@nNFL2K: Console specs are like low to mid range PCs in terms of power. Games look great on consoles because they take much more out of the hardware than PCs, much higher optimization.

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bluefox755

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@GamerYnoX: You're missing the point, most people who own PCs don't have a PC that can outperform PS4 in terms of gaming. Most PCs ship with onboard graphics.

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Psionacles

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@bluefox755: no most PC's dont ship with onboard graphics. Laptops yes PCs nope

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nNFL2K

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@GamerYnoX: I'm not saying PS4 is more powerful than a mid-range PC, I'm simply saying that PC itself is not a uniform platform and power varies greatly to the extent that there are plenty of PC's being used right now that are at or below the PS4's specs. In fact, there are pre-built gaming PC's being sold right now by major PC manufacturers that are at and below the PS4's level.

And yes, I'm aware of uniform optimization which is a big advantage developers have when developing on consoles which is one big reason they love doing it; that and the money they make from the games of course.

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