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Peter Moore Told Sonic Creator To "F**k Off" When Sega Didn't Believe It Was Fading

Hell hath no fury like a Peter Moore scorned.

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Former Xbox and EA exec Peter Moore has recounted the opposition he faced in trying to make Sega come to terms with its declining relevance during the Dreamcast era. In the midst of his battles he even went as far as telling Yuji Naka, the creator of Sonic, to "f**k off" when evidence that Sega's brand was fading was refuted.

At the time, Moore was Sega of America's chief operating officer and, in an interview with Glixel, he described the challenges he faced in trying to make the company understand it was seen as the "grandad" of the industry.

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"We did a focus group here in San Francisco, I'm trying to think what year this would be, probably late 2001, early 2002, because I needed to prove to the Japanese that our brand was starting just to fade away," he explained. "And so we asked [a] focus group, a bunch of 18-, 19-year-olds, a classic question, 'If a video game publisher was a relative or a friend, who would they be?'"

Rival company EA was described by the focus group as the "arrogant quarterback" and Rockstar was the "drunken uncle" that is "the life of the party for a little while, and then he disappears for a long time." Sega, however, was perceived as "your grandad," who "used to be cool, but even he can't remember why anymore."

Moore filmed the focus groups where these discussions were had and presented them to the Japanese side of the company, which included Naka and Shenmue creator Yu Suzuki.

"[Naka] and I have a love/hate relationship on a good day. And we show him this, and it's subtitled in Japanese, and when it comes to that piece he just [slams his hand on the table], 'This is ridiculous. You have made them say this. Sega is the great brand, nobody would ever say this, you have falsified!' He just gets in my face.

"So I said to the translator, 'Tell him to f**k off.' And the poor guy looks at me and says, 'There's no expression in Japanese.' I said, 'I know there is.' And that was it. That was the last time I ever set foot in there."

Moore noted that he loved, and "still loves" Sega, but added that its most prominent developers weren't able to see "the world was changing around them," and therefore instigating a change in identity was difficult.

"I rarely get upset, but to be accused of doctoring a video, because there's none so blind as those who will not see, right? I loved Sega, still love Sega, but it was dominated by the developers to the extent where Sega as a company couldn't move if Suzuki, [Nights: Into Dreams developer] Nakagawa-san, [and Jet Set Radio developer, Kazuma] Iguchi weren't into it."

Moore's desire to transform Sega's identity came in light of shifting trends within the industry, which were steered by games like Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto 3 and Sony's PlayStation, which courted maturer gamers.

"That was, to me, this inflection point. Once the tech started to get more powerful, the creative elements that would come over from Hollywood and from television all of a sudden--that was what gave us Rockstar, and what the Houser brothers, to their credit, did for games. I mean, you look back on the history of this industry, you can point to these moments and say, 'That's when everything started to change.'"

Shortly after his meeting with Sega, Moore was approached by Microsoft, which was looking into challenging Sony's living room dominance. At the time, Microsoft had been working on Xenon, which would go on to become the Xbox 360. Moore agreed to join the company and was instrumental in the success of the Xbox 360.

Glixel's interview with Moore is fascinating and well worth reading.

After his time at Microsoft, Moore joined EA, most recently serving as its chief competition officer. However, in February he announced he would be leaving the company, and the games industry, to take up the role of chief executive officer for Liverpool FC, the English football team that Moore has been a lifelong fan of.

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Pyrosa

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Follow the trend: Just during/after his departure from EVERY organization, those companies all hit rough times... Since the impacts of bad management aren't usually felt immediately, this is a pretty obvious indicator that PETER MOORE IS BAD FOR BUSINESS.

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mogan

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Edited By mogan  Moderator

@Pyrosa: Except that Sega was on its way down well before Peter Moore left, Microsoft rebounded big with the 360 after he got there, and he wasn't around for the whole Xbox One debacle.

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Redsyrup

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@Pyrosa: Totally agreed. Moore's idea of good business is getting a new tattoo and somehow showing it off increases sales. Give me a break.

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dlCHIEF58

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@Pyrosa: Sega was in rough times well before he left (and he was about the only one that actually knew there was a problem and tried to fix it). He also left Microsoft well before they hit what anyone would call "rough times" - THat we can put pretty much entirely on Mattrick and his team of yes-men. Finally he just left EA a few months ago and they are actually doing better than they have in the past - both financially and in the eyes of the public.

The only thing obvious is you do not have a clue.

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Redsyrup

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As someone who's taken part in these video game related focus groups I can say these studies are total BS. They bring in guys that don't play games or are casual gamers (kids at that) who really aren't well spoken and what you end up with is a couple alpha males directing the tone and language of the entire group. A bunch of kids trolling easy targets.

Moore may have had good intentions in trying to get edgier material to the Dreamcast (like Headhunter) but more likely he's greasing gears to convince Sega to sell out to Microsoft. I've never trusted this guy. His boss Bernie Stolar seemed much more legit. I'm convinced Moore laid the death blow on Sega.

F him.

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dlCHIEF58

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@Redsyrup: While he did actually give the killing blow to the Dreamcast by recommending the decision to stop production, he was in no way was responsible for their decline to that point and actually the only thing keeping the company afloat at the end. It can all be placed squarely on the Japanese management and executives who refused to see the problems or try to fix them due to their pride, arrogance and greed. It has been well documented there was always a disconnect (and sometimes open hostility) between the main office in Japan and Sega of America all the way back to the Genesis days, where they constantly ignored anything out of SoA.

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mogan

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Edited By mogan  Moderator

@Redsyrup: He wasn't wrong though. In 2000-2001, Sega's brand WAS fading away. It was fading before Peter Moore started at Microsoft.

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Redsyrup

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@Mogan: Was he trying though? Where was the Dreamcast w/PSO bundle or arcade bundle with VF, Daytona or Sonic? They could have been much more aggressive with sales or promotions but look what we got a Sega Sports bundle (that was smart). I think this is Moore blaming SoJ deflecting blame on SoA. I don't trust this guy. His leadership of SoA seemed half-hearted once Stolar departed.

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mogan

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mogan  Moderator

@Redsyrup: I don't think any of that would have saved the Dreamcast in the US, man. The games just weren't there. Sega's library for that system was almost all Japanese games and sports/racing games. Nothing like GTA III or Halo, and EA was pumping out more sports and racing games on other platforms.

The Saturn had failed, Sonic was continuing to fail, meanwhile western cinematic action games were on the rise basically everywhere except the Dreamcast and the guys at SoJ still thought their brand was super relevant. I don't see how Peter Moore deserves the blame for Sega's downfall.

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Redsyrup

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@Mogan: Dreamcast predated the franchises you mentioned. As I remember it Moore tucked his tail between his legs a year before Microsoft launched Xbox or roughly 6 months after PS2's NA release. Dreamcast only had one solid year at retail. Moore's handling of SoA after Stolar was an insult to Sega fans. Like I said the Sega Sports bundle was the only special edition bundle we saw. I don't think EA's embargo of sports titles hurt the company. A cheap PSO bundle would have sold a ton of systems.

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mogan

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mogan  Moderator

@Redsyrup: I think you're putting waaay too much importance on what ONE guy could have done to a console in a short amount of time, especially since Peter Moore was COO of Sega of America, and had to answer to Sega of Japan. And you're definitely overestimating the importance of Phantasy Star Online in North America.

I look at the Dreamcast, and the games it had, and the games it didn't, and I don't see anything that could have gone up against the PS2 and not been obliterated in North America. I also don't understand what Peter Moore's motivation would have been to purposely tank the company he was working for.

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deactivated-64efdf49333c4

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@Mogan: That's the first time I've seen anyone say that. I was always under the impression that the Dreamcast had great games.

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mogan

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mogan  Moderator

@Barighm: It had SOME great games. It just didn't have enough. If you loved JRPGs and Japanese games in general, then it probably did just fine for you, but it was really lacking the kind of games that were big in North America in the early 2000s. The time the Dreamcast should have been hitting its stride is right when GTA III came out, and Halo came out, and they were two of the most influential console games in the west then, and there was nothing like them at all on the Dreamcast.

Sega had sports and racing, but so did EA, and EA just made more of them and for more systems.

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Slypher9

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@Redsyrup: he's couldn't because the Japan guys decided most the direction the company should take... It similar to Nintendo is now, you think Reggie and go the NoJ and say they company need to change there ways and they'll listen... Keep wishing

SoJ doomed the company and there is nothing SoA could do to stop it, because as far as SoJ was concern SoA works for them and shouldn't have a say in the direction of the company

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Pac1Man

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Thankfully Nintendo are following suit.

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Slypher9

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@Pac1Man: lol... Thats true but Nintendo seems to have a much greater loyal fan base

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coop36

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Edited By coop36

@Pac1Man: Not even remotely similar.

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parabol69

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@coop36: It's sad, but he has a point. The difference is the fan base.

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coop36

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@7tizz: Dont feel too bad. I picked up a Virtual Boy brand new back in the day lol...

The Dream Cast was actually a nice system from my memories. The 2K sports games blew my mind, just looked so fluid.

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coop36

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Edited By coop36

@7tizz: Wow, that cheap? I do admit I had fun with Red Alarm and Mario Tennis.

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hoopstar13

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@7tizz: I got the Saturn just to play Nights into dreams (and I bought Sonic Jam because I loved that franchise that much), but I was pissed because most of the games that I liked were on Playstation (Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Solid, Sports).

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Domiddian

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@7tizz: The first one was, but none of the sequels. In fact the first Tomb Raider game released on the Saturn a couple of weeks before any other console.

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Thanatos2k

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I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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Zignoff

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@Thanatos2k: Yakuza, Hatsune Miku, Total War, and Sonic Generations seem to say differently right now.

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Thanatos2k

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@computernoises: The Dreamcast didn't die. Sega was toast before the Dreamcast was even released, no amount of success would have saved them from the millions lost from the 32x and Saturn. The Dreamcast on its own was a success, but it was too little and too late.

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gotrekfabian

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Edited By gotrekfabian

Only a couple of console generations late for this news but still funny nonetheless.

For me, Sonic was dying towards the end of the MegaDrive/Genesis's lifespan, maybe if they had listened to him Sega would still be manufacturing consoles. I guess we shall never know.

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catsimboy

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Moore may be a wanker but it sounds like he was trying his hardest to give Sega a clue when it came to their relevance. Oh well at least they're still making cool stuff like Yakuza when they're not making another steaming pile of Sonic.

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deactivated-597646ec1539d

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To be fair to SEGA they where still heavily relevant in the Dreamcast era because of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 and even going into the GameCube era. 2005 was the beginning of SEGA's true decline.

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Redsyrup

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Edited By Redsyrup

@gameplayuk: True that. Jet Set Radio, Shenmue, Headhunter and even Samba De Amigo were edgy titles. Dreamcast was pushing fresh content and is a fan favorite for good reason.

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deactivated-597646ec1539d

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@Redsyrup: definately

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uninspiredcup

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It's no secret the Japanese side of Sega was living in the clouds.

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sealionact

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Edited By sealionact

Kind of fitting that he ended up at a club who is also fading from relevance....

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BDRTFM

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Edited By BDRTFM

Peter Moore talking about somethings irrelevance. How's that for ironic.

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Blk_Mage_Ctype

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Edited By Blk_Mage_Ctype

A focus group of late teens is hardly proof of a fading brand, especially when boys that age tend to front being tough guys and therefore are unlikely to admit to enjoying games featuring colorful cartoon characters like Sonic the Hedgehog. Also, what on Earth do R* and EA have to do with Sega? This focus group honestly sounds as though it was hand-picked and railroaded into being decidedly against Sega, so I honestly don't blame them for dismissing it.

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mogan

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@Blk_Mage_Ctype: It really doesn't matter if Moore's focus group was reasonable "proof" or not, he was trying to illustrate a point he'd already been making and show Sega that he'd been right, they were fading out. And he WAS right, Sega WAS fading out in 2000-2001. Saturn had been a disaster, Sonic had seen his last good game, the Dreamcast was in trouble, and EA and Rockstar were making games that were really popular and setting new gaming trends.

Yeah, a recorded focus group probably isn't super compelling evidence if its the ONLY thing saying your brand is dying. It wasn't though, Peter Moore was just trying to draw the guys at Sega a picture and make them understand they were missing all the other indicators they their name alone wasn't going to keep them alive. Sega shouldn't have even needed Peter Moore to come show them the video in the first place.

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Edited By Erebus

@Blk_Mage_Ctype: Here's the thing.... Where was Nintendo in all of this? Mario was NEVER hip or tough. His games are the epitome of kid-friendly with absolutely no edge. Why wasn't he fading?

There are questions a good marketing team member would present to his or her colleagues.

Admittedly, I know the answer. Sonic is imbued with a plastic "cool" persona that tries to paint him as both edgy and kid-friendly. They doubled-down on this by adding Shadow and other "misfit" characters. Guess what? Kids weren't buying that crap. If you've ever seen the episode of The Simpsons where they bring on Poochie, a "hip and radical" dog created by a marketing company without regard for how flimsy his facade really was, that is basically where Sonic ended up.

Any kid (or adult) will tell you, the more you TRY to be cool, the more artificial and uncool you become. The writing was on the wall the very first time Sonic opened his mouth.

You come by it honestly, or you get left behind.

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mogan

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mogan  Moderator

@Erebus: And also the games weren't any good.

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