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Peter Moore Told Sonic Creator To "F**k Off" When Sega Didn't Believe It Was Fading

Hell hath no fury like a Peter Moore scorned.

261 Comments

Former Xbox and EA exec Peter Moore has recounted the opposition he faced in trying to make Sega come to terms with its declining relevance during the Dreamcast era. In the midst of his battles he even went as far as telling Yuji Naka, the creator of Sonic, to "f**k off" when evidence that Sega's brand was fading was refuted.

At the time, Moore was Sega of America's chief operating officer and, in an interview with Glixel, he described the challenges he faced in trying to make the company understand it was seen as the "grandad" of the industry.

No Caption Provided

"We did a focus group here in San Francisco, I'm trying to think what year this would be, probably late 2001, early 2002, because I needed to prove to the Japanese that our brand was starting just to fade away," he explained. "And so we asked [a] focus group, a bunch of 18-, 19-year-olds, a classic question, 'If a video game publisher was a relative or a friend, who would they be?'"

Rival company EA was described by the focus group as the "arrogant quarterback" and Rockstar was the "drunken uncle" that is "the life of the party for a little while, and then he disappears for a long time." Sega, however, was perceived as "your grandad," who "used to be cool, but even he can't remember why anymore."

Moore filmed the focus groups where these discussions were had and presented them to the Japanese side of the company, which included Naka and Shenmue creator Yu Suzuki.

"[Naka] and I have a love/hate relationship on a good day. And we show him this, and it's subtitled in Japanese, and when it comes to that piece he just [slams his hand on the table], 'This is ridiculous. You have made them say this. Sega is the great brand, nobody would ever say this, you have falsified!' He just gets in my face.

"So I said to the translator, 'Tell him to f**k off.' And the poor guy looks at me and says, 'There's no expression in Japanese.' I said, 'I know there is.' And that was it. That was the last time I ever set foot in there."

Moore noted that he loved, and "still loves" Sega, but added that its most prominent developers weren't able to see "the world was changing around them," and therefore instigating a change in identity was difficult.

"I rarely get upset, but to be accused of doctoring a video, because there's none so blind as those who will not see, right? I loved Sega, still love Sega, but it was dominated by the developers to the extent where Sega as a company couldn't move if Suzuki, [Nights: Into Dreams developer] Nakagawa-san, [and Jet Set Radio developer, Kazuma] Iguchi weren't into it."

Moore's desire to transform Sega's identity came in light of shifting trends within the industry, which were steered by games like Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto 3 and Sony's PlayStation, which courted maturer gamers.

"That was, to me, this inflection point. Once the tech started to get more powerful, the creative elements that would come over from Hollywood and from television all of a sudden--that was what gave us Rockstar, and what the Houser brothers, to their credit, did for games. I mean, you look back on the history of this industry, you can point to these moments and say, 'That's when everything started to change.'"

Shortly after his meeting with Sega, Moore was approached by Microsoft, which was looking into challenging Sony's living room dominance. At the time, Microsoft had been working on Xenon, which would go on to become the Xbox 360. Moore agreed to join the company and was instrumental in the success of the Xbox 360.

Glixel's interview with Moore is fascinating and well worth reading.

After his time at Microsoft, Moore joined EA, most recently serving as its chief competition officer. However, in February he announced he would be leaving the company, and the games industry, to take up the role of chief executive officer for Liverpool FC, the English football team that Moore has been a lifelong fan of.

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Richardthe3rd

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Peter Moore speaking on the matter of executives being out of touch with their customers?

WOW

I knew he thought we were all stupid, but this is a whole new level of insulting.

Please Peter; just go away and shut the **** up already. We all saw Sega crash and burn and "perhaps" it wasn't on you, but the concept that you had some sort of midas touch or were an "I told you so" voice in the industry is so fantastically stupid I'm not sure who could be convinced to believe it.

Few people have been as disrespectful to the industry and gamers as Peter Moore has. So to use your own words Peter, kindly go "**** off."

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wolfpup7

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Edited By wolfpup7

@Richardthe3rd: Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous...

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ArabrockermanX

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@Richardthe3rd: Key point here, he's talking about a focus group in the early 00's, by that point Sega's ship had already sunk. If he was that late to the game, there's not a damn thing he could have done to make things better.

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Richardthe3rd

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Edited By Richardthe3rd

@ArabrockermanX: thats all well and good. But recounting this incident doesn't erase the negative sum impact his presence has had on the industry.

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e3man01

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@Richardthe3rd: Is this from him being at EA? Because the Peter Moore I've seen, is vastly different from the one you lambasted in your original post.

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USDevilDog

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Dear Sega, all is forgiven if you can give us another Skies of Arcadia and Streets of Rage... maybe Shining Force too... and other awesome games that start with 'S'.

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wolfpup7

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@USDevilDog: *sigh*, yeah, they've got such a strong library to delve in to . I mean they haven't had a console in 17 years and they STILL have way, way more to pull from than Microsoft.

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timemasheen

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@USDevilDog: Hell yes, I totally agree!

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sladakrobot

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@USDevilDog: well said

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alaskancrab

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Edited By alaskancrab

For a company that outright destroyed Nintendo in the American and Japanese arcades you'd think Sega America was the issue. Dreamcast from day one should have been marketed as a retro arcade console, it's Peter's fault for mucking that message up with "granddad". And especially given the kids who grew up on those games, were the ones with disposable cash not your 18/19 year old barely out of high school, but the 18-35 market segment.

Anyways Peter should be happy he's going to a business that revolves around selling sneakers again. He obviously has no capacity to deal with creative types, if he thinks this is some kind of victory.

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dylan35

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@alaskancrab: at the time younger people were gonna wait almost 2 years for PS2 and Sony had really gained mind control over an entire generation. I was around younger people being a dj and in rave scene I asked friends at time and it was like Sega wasn't relevant to them.

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Boodger

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Edited By Boodger

@alaskancrab: But Sega WAS losing relevance, he wasn't wrong, and it appears that Sega of Japan was quite blind to the whole situation. Also, home consoles are a whole different ball game than arcades.

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ArabrockermanX

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Edited By ArabrockermanX

@P00DGE: Sales speak, I highly doubt Sega of Japan was clueless to their problem, it had been going on for years by the time Peter done this survey... Someone telling Sega they were "losing" relevance by 2000-01 was an idiot, they had already lost all relevance by then.

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oflow

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@alaskancrab: agree to a degree. But back then video games weren't what they are today. They still carried the 'mostly a thing for kids' stereotype, and not just that but mostly a thing nerds did. People forget nerds being cool is a more recent phenomenon. Every hot girl in glasses on twitch is 'such a nerd' nowadays.

People weren't clamoring to call themselves nerds back then lol.

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hystavito

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@oflow@P00DGE@alaskancrab: "such a nerd" :) good point

Interesting thing though, with games like Shenmue, even though it wasn't commercially successful, they were clearly trying to do something that somewhat conflicts with what Moore is saying.

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jurk182

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"Maturer"?

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GigaLoser

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@jurk182: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/maturer

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deactivated-5b2c8e0382c99

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@jurk182: Lol.

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jinzo9988

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Edited By jinzo9988

Sega, however, was perceived as "your grandad," who "used to be cool, but even he can't remember why anymore."

Spot on. Sega is the shits. Come on people. The only bit of relevance Sega ever had in the mass market with a console in first world countries was Sonic... and Sonic was not that good. Sonic was good for the time but it hasn't aged anywhere near as well as Mario. Sonic was a gimmick that carried on 20 years past its expiry date.

The Saturn was virtually non-existent, the Master System was virtually non-existent, and while Sega made some headway with the Dreamcast, they STILL had their head in the sand with some of their games. Don't get me wrong, there are some mighty fine games that deserve every bit of their success on the Dreamcast... but at the same time they were still trying to put shallow 10-minute arcade games out at full price (Crazy Taxi says hello). They hung their hats FAR too much on their arcade titles. At one time, arcade titles on a home console printed money. By the early 2000s, I dare say they were embarrassing to see on the shelves as full priced games that were trying to sell the system.

I bought a Dreamcast very early on, and while I enjoyed renting The House of the Dead 2 for a weekend, if you asked me to buy it I would've laughed right in your face at the idea. The Dreamcast had too many arcade games. I mean now I kind of wish you could buy some of them at $5-10 a pop on Steam, but at the time console games were putting arcade games to shame. The Dreamcast is the hot new system and there it is... Crazy Taxi on the shelf, while over on the PS1 shelves there's Final Fantasy IX (which came out the same year that Crazy Taxi did).

I give fighting games a pass because people find depth in them that far surpasses a couple credits of play. Marvel vs Capcom 2 was a BIG deal at the time and the only system that had it for a long while was the Dreamcast. The DC was paradise if you were into fighters. Street Fighter 3 was a big deal also. Third Strike wouldn't see release on another home console until almost 4 years after the release of the Dreamcast version. Of course there's Soul Calibur which was excellent, Marvel vs Capcom was better on the DC as you could actually play with 2 characters as you're supposed to in that game, Capcom vs SNK was only on the Dreamcast for awhile (and the PS1 version that eventually came out was inferior), and if you didn't mind imports you could even get Capcom vs SNK 2 on it (it may have been the only game I ever burned for the DC).

If you weren't into arcade ports, fighters or sports games, the Dreamcast simply didn't have much to offer. It had little pockets of awesome, but it was slim pickings otherwise. What Sega is doing now as a third party company with some of the games/developers that it has taken under their wing is what they should've done when the Dreamcast was relevant.

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wolfpup7

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@jinzo9988: The Master System was better hardware than NES, and a huge part of why it didn't do anywhere near as well is just down to Nintendo's illegal monopoly tactics.

Genesis did fantastically, and had a hell of a lot more than just Sonic.

I do kind of agree about Sonic though. I like the character, but there's just not much depth there compared to the best platformers IMO. (Though I still like it far more than Donkey Kong Country that trades depth for being crazy hard and thinks I'm supposed to be impressed by that.)

<<<If you weren't into arcade ports, fighters or sports games, the Dreamcast simply didn't have much to offer. It had little pockets of awesome, but it was slim pickings otherwise. >>>

It was only on the market a year or two, and in that time had a ton of different things. IMO it did better than PS2's first couple years.

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e3man01

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@jinzo9988: The Master System was a speck in Nintendo's shadow in NA. It was hugely popular in Europe and South America. Saturn's best games were 2D and mostly left in Japan. Saturn was most popular in Japan, I believe. In NA, it was grossly overshadowed by the PS1 and N64. Loved it regardless, games are worth a pretty penny though. Most, not all.

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el_swanno

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@jinzo9988: Dreamcast also had Phantasy Star Online which surely has to be the first online RPG for consoles. Resident Evil Code Veronica set a new benchmark for the series.

For me the biggest stumbling block for Dreamcast was Shenmue. It was supposed to be Sega's killer exclusive but it ended up being their biggest disappointment. If Shenmue had delivered the good things may have been different for Dreamcast.

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wolfpup7

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@el_swanno: Shenmue was amazing. I'm not sure what you mean by deliver the goods...

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VFighter

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@jinzo9988: BS, Sonic 1-3 were and still are fantastic games, this nonsense that they haven't aged well is some of the stupidest crap I've heard in sometime.

After the 16 bit era, yeah Sonic sucked for the most part, but the 16 bit games are still just as good as they were all those years ago.

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wolfpup7

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@vfighter: I like 'em a hell of a lot more than DKC, but IMO there's just not much depth there. I like power ups and whatnot in my platformers :-D

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runstalker

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@jinzo9988You're completely mental if you don't think the Mega Drive and Saturn have some legendary games, or you simply never mined the depths of their libraries for all those gems - and that would be a shame indeed.

But it would explain the comment.:

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jinzo9988

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Edited By jinzo9988

@runstalker: So legendary that they went on to sell less Saturns than Nintendo did Wii Us and pulled the plug on the Dreamcast 2 years into its run. The point is relevance. Sega barely had it outside of Sonic when it came to home consoles. I dare say they are the kings of the cult classic.

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wolfpup7

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@jinzo9988: Dreamcast was killed because they didn't have money for it. Saturn in the U.S. was hurt by a terrible launch, bad marketing, a higher price point, and the insane launching 32x less than a year before it launched.

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angrycreep

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Edited By angrycreep

@runstalker: Mega Drive - yes. Saturn in Japan - yes. Saturn in amrica - not so much. Sega Saturn didn't have much in America as the best games stay in Japan and didn't come to America Saturn. I had to import a lot good games from japan like the X-men VS Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes and even many SNK fighters all this games were utilizing the 4MB cartridge to work, and not one of this Capcom and SNK games made it to the state and the 4MB cartridge to greatly improve the games never made it either. I have a whole bunch of this games that were utilizing this 4MB cartridge and I had to import all this games from japan because they never made it over here. Back in the days, japan had a lot good games that never made it over here and that was the biggest problem of the Saturn in America.

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wolfpup7

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@angrycreep: It had a TON of great games that did make it though.

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e3man01

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Edited By e3man01

@angrycreep: PREACH IT! I, too, bought several import games that should've made it to NA but failed to. Saturn has a lot of great games overlooked by the gaming public by a large margin. One "good" thing is if you lived during the Saturn and still have games (me, on both counts) they are a great investment. So many are worth $100 or more, complete in good to great shape.

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wolfpup7

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@e3man01: There's no way in hell I'd sell any of my Saturn games for only $100 :-D I idiotically sold Dragon Force though, which was *FANTASTIC*. That game desperately needs a rerelease if nothing else.

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e3man01

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@wolfpup7: Unless homelessness comes into play, I won't be selling my Saturn games.

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sargentpsgamer

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People act like it's only Japanese companies that do it.... American companies do this crap too. They see something working so they stick to it instead of looking ahead and trying to capitalize on the changing environment. They are afraid to take risks that might pay off. Then their company slowly dies or falls behind because nothing is changing, and when they finally see the guy was right it's too late. I've worked for smaller companies where we had groups of people telling "higher ups" "umm, maybe we should catch this before it runs away" and nope. Now those companies are struggling or closed.

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thochaos

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Edited By thochaos

Hilarious. But what's with that terrible article title? Jeez.

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oflow

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@click bait gotta catch em all

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wexorian

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@oflow: Sad for them i'm using addblock on gamespot :D

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mrbojangles25

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I'd hate to be an American working within a Japanese company; I know a couple people that do personally, and that combined with what I've read, it just sounds god awful.

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xOmniCloudx

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@mrbojangles25: Have any of them quit or sought to? I can't imagine they'd want to stay working with Japanese companies if they had other alternatives.

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mrbojangles25

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@xOmniCloudx: the companies pay really well, the work itself is rewarding, and frankly it is prestigious in most cases if you get high up enough. One of the people I know is essentially in charge of the Pacific Northwest marketing (or something) and that's kind of a huge deal, you don't just walk away from that.

People talk about the "bamboo ceiling" (i.e. the limit imposed upon how far up a white person can go in a Japanese/asian company), but they can still go pretty far.

Maybe "God awful" was a poor choice of words on my part; I think I should have said "mixed bag" or "barely worth it". I think you really need to be sure you can get to the top.

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xOmniCloudx

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Edited By xOmniCloudx

@mrbojangles25: Minorities or non Japanese Asians must be doomed working for a JP company and trying to soar highly then.

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coop36

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Edited By coop36

@mrbojangles25: It really does sound bad. I guess thats just part of the double edged sword of being in such a homogeneous culture? Nobody wants to stand out or be seen as a trouble maker, so its easier for their execs to treat them like slave labor.

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xOmniCloudx

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Edited By xOmniCloudx

Common knowledge that SEGA higher ups were terrible businessmen and that even now there's pathetic in feuding in SEGA, namely between the US and JP branches. Explains a LOT.

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deactivated-64efdf49333c4

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@xOmniCloudx: Yep. SEGA is legendary for their poor marketing decisions. Being completely deluded would explain everything.

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