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Peter Moore Told Sonic Creator To "F**k Off" When Sega Didn't Believe It Was Fading

Hell hath no fury like a Peter Moore scorned.

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Former Xbox and EA exec Peter Moore has recounted the opposition he faced in trying to make Sega come to terms with its declining relevance during the Dreamcast era. In the midst of his battles he even went as far as telling Yuji Naka, the creator of Sonic, to "f**k off" when evidence that Sega's brand was fading was refuted.

At the time, Moore was Sega of America's chief operating officer and, in an interview with Glixel, he described the challenges he faced in trying to make the company understand it was seen as the "grandad" of the industry.

No Caption Provided

"We did a focus group here in San Francisco, I'm trying to think what year this would be, probably late 2001, early 2002, because I needed to prove to the Japanese that our brand was starting just to fade away," he explained. "And so we asked [a] focus group, a bunch of 18-, 19-year-olds, a classic question, 'If a video game publisher was a relative or a friend, who would they be?'"

Rival company EA was described by the focus group as the "arrogant quarterback" and Rockstar was the "drunken uncle" that is "the life of the party for a little while, and then he disappears for a long time." Sega, however, was perceived as "your grandad," who "used to be cool, but even he can't remember why anymore."

Moore filmed the focus groups where these discussions were had and presented them to the Japanese side of the company, which included Naka and Shenmue creator Yu Suzuki.

"[Naka] and I have a love/hate relationship on a good day. And we show him this, and it's subtitled in Japanese, and when it comes to that piece he just [slams his hand on the table], 'This is ridiculous. You have made them say this. Sega is the great brand, nobody would ever say this, you have falsified!' He just gets in my face.

"So I said to the translator, 'Tell him to f**k off.' And the poor guy looks at me and says, 'There's no expression in Japanese.' I said, 'I know there is.' And that was it. That was the last time I ever set foot in there."

Moore noted that he loved, and "still loves" Sega, but added that its most prominent developers weren't able to see "the world was changing around them," and therefore instigating a change in identity was difficult.

"I rarely get upset, but to be accused of doctoring a video, because there's none so blind as those who will not see, right? I loved Sega, still love Sega, but it was dominated by the developers to the extent where Sega as a company couldn't move if Suzuki, [Nights: Into Dreams developer] Nakagawa-san, [and Jet Set Radio developer, Kazuma] Iguchi weren't into it."

Moore's desire to transform Sega's identity came in light of shifting trends within the industry, which were steered by games like Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto 3 and Sony's PlayStation, which courted maturer gamers.

"That was, to me, this inflection point. Once the tech started to get more powerful, the creative elements that would come over from Hollywood and from television all of a sudden--that was what gave us Rockstar, and what the Houser brothers, to their credit, did for games. I mean, you look back on the history of this industry, you can point to these moments and say, 'That's when everything started to change.'"

Shortly after his meeting with Sega, Moore was approached by Microsoft, which was looking into challenging Sony's living room dominance. At the time, Microsoft had been working on Xenon, which would go on to become the Xbox 360. Moore agreed to join the company and was instrumental in the success of the Xbox 360.

Glixel's interview with Moore is fascinating and well worth reading.

After his time at Microsoft, Moore joined EA, most recently serving as its chief competition officer. However, in February he announced he would be leaving the company, and the games industry, to take up the role of chief executive officer for Liverpool FC, the English football team that Moore has been a lifelong fan of.

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Johann_Popper

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Edited By Johann_Popper

Well, this certainly clears up how SoA f**ked up a year-long head start on Sony with classic exclusives like Shenmue and Jet Set Radio. Who does Moore think he's talking to? Under 20 year olds? Gamers were there! There was no such perception in the U.S. at that time. There was frustration DC had few RPGs and FPSs. Moore could've helped change that. He chose to jump ship. There was no generational divide. Jet Set Radio still holds up as a model of relevant gaming, and Shenmue broke Kickstarter just last year. 'Grandad' (in the negative sense) is certainly an out-of-context lie. At the time, DC had stable online play first. PSO was a gigantic success. Now I see Moore was a traitor who sabotaged Sega and essentially orchestrated the theft of their most popular DC franchises by Microsoft to compete with Sony. Or he was vastly incompetent. No amount of revision will change the possible facts. This article should be focused on Naka's reasonable response to Moore's betrayal.

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Krystalmyth

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Edited By Krystalmyth

@johann_popper: Absolutely brilliantly said. It startles me how so many people here just followed the tempo set by the narcissistic failure of a CEO who has literally left every company he touches worse off than when he leaves them. They don't even question the logic of someone responding to accusations of falsehood with "**** off" at just a base cognitive level. Like people are going to take someone like Naka, and immediately think he's out of touch because he's from a foreign country? That Sega just flat out didn't get a clue? Everything you said about Moore was spot on. This guy had no intention on making Sega a success. Hell the guy isn't in that business. Its a complete sham of a story he wrote here, but like most narcissists, they know what to say to rope in people who don't want to dig just a bit further into how he managed to convince them the creator of Sonic didn't deserve an answer to "you're full of shit." If a charlatan who responds with "**** off" to that kind of accusation is someone you trust, you're being manipulated. Youd think someone who had something real to say would have an answer for someone who quite frankly, earned it. Breaks my heart to see how easy a task it was for people to stand against a man who literally bled for that company. Thank you for putting the spotlight on the truth of this story. My goodness I'm glad you posted. You're one of the few who pulled it off and saw the truth of it.

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TheBigBadGRIM

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Edited By TheBigBadGRIM

Shenmue + Jet Set Radio + Nights: Into Dreams >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonic

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wolfpup7

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That's interesting, though I certainly wasn't aware of a perception like that around 2000, and of course the perception isn't necessarily negative anyway. (Plus how the questions were asked can matter, etc...I know those types of questions drive me nuts on surveys...)

At any rate, Sega's problem is they ran out of money. They just didn't have the money to do a console anymore. The Dreamcast as I understand it was actually doing okay, if they'd had deeper pockets they didn't need to quit. (And for that matter, even though the hardware was technically the worst of that generation, I think the actual graphics it pumped out a lot of times were more pleasing than a lot of PS2 games, and still look great.)

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Dumachum

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"We did a focus group...."

Stopped reading....

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ItchyIsVegeta

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Edited By ItchyIsVegeta

Sega is the new Atari, unfortunately.

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IanNottinghamX

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Edited By IanNottinghamX

Sega had issues long before Peter Moore was Ceo of SoA. And the fact was that Moore was also clearly doing a shit job at Sega at that time also because never did it occur to him to be conscious of actual gamers of the time or actual popular games people wanted on the Dreamcast at the time.

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ArabrockermanX

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Shit hit the fan long before the Dreamcast, Moore's focus groups were far too late to the game.

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appariti0n

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I'm sure the bigwigs at Konami still think their company is hip and cool in the eyes of gamers too.

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Dumachum

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@appariti0n: The thing with Konami is they don't even care.

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wolfpup7

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Edited By wolfpup7

@Dumachum: Yeah, they're what, an insurance company or something like that, that happens to throw out a few games here and there? They don't care, they're not really a game company anymore and aren't trying to be.

It sucks as back in the NES days they were a total powerhouse.

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BlazeKingz

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yakuza is the only game from sega that people actually like

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wolfpup7

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@BlazeKingz: Yakuza's awesome, but they've got lots of other good stuff too, including under their Atlus brand.

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firedrakes

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until sht hit the fan. sega did not care.

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anon_fire

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I guess this is why we will never see another Phantasy Star game in the west again.

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dylan35

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Great guy Dreamcast was great but kids born after 1980 were waiting for PS2 I remember day 1 Dreamcast buyer. Sega of Japan how on God's earth could you pick cheesy metal guitar riffs over Techno? Still have promo grunge music CD from Sega Saturn

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Redsyrup

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I said it once and I'll say it again. Moore was no help to Sega. There should have been more Dreamcast bundles with hit franchises like PSO, Crazy Taxi, Sonic, Alien Front, Jet Set Radio. Where were the bundles? Instead we had only one the Sega Sports and black DC. F EA. Sports games are not the core market. They weren't then and still aren't now. PSO should have stayed free too. The mistakes are strong with this CEO. Tattooing game logos to your arms does not equal success.

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runstalker

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Edited By runstalker

@Zero_ManiacSoA's first major blunder was pre-Dreamcast, and indeed pre-Saturn, with the unnecessary 32X initiative.

The Genesis was still selling perfectly fine at the time, as-in extremely well (coming off a year staying head-to-head with Nintendo) and still highly relevant, and they panicked when word got out about Sony imminently entering the fray. So they said, "Hey, those chips we're partnering with Hitachi on for the Saturn... can we cram them into an accessory we can plug into the Genesis? Like... right now?"

A gimped spec, and completely unnecessary use of manufacturing resources and marketing for a doomed end-gen accessory, when they could have easily continued to ride the Genesis for another year and brought the Saturn to market cheaper, focused, better supported, and with a beefier line-up.

Had the Saturn, which was super popular in Japan, been adequately prepared for its Western debut and remaining competitive vs. PSone/N64, Sega's fortunes would have been much different by the time the NAOMI/Dreamcast hardware was ready to go -- and it would have been far better prepared to weather the storm of PS2.

It's all history.:

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wolfpup7

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@runstalker: Yeah, I think I totally agree with all that.

I was *shocked* when I found out the 32x wasn't an upgrade that turned your Genesis/SegaCD into a Saturn...in other words that Saturn wasn't sort of an all in one thing.

Since it wasn't, it was completely insane to launch that 6 months before launching Saturn.

I think had they skipped 32x, and done better with the Saturn launch, they'd have done better in the U.S. I still like my Saturn better than the N64, and they had a TON of great exclusives even in the short period it was on the market for in the U.S. (The N64 was so game starved that even having a full console generation I don't think it ever built half as good a library as Saturn.)

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runstalker

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Edited By runstalker

@wolfpup7: Yup. I think if I had one "time travel and everybody listens" opportunity for the Saturn in the West, I would tell them: Forget 32x, delay Saturn an extra 6 months, and for fucks sake, make the cartridge port on the Saturn compatible with Genesis games.

Problem solved, and a beautiful extra selling point.

(The Saturn had emulated collections of 16-bit games fairly early, so it seems adding the chips to the Saturn would've been unnecessary -- and the cartridge port could've still accepted memory carts, obviously).

What an opportunity missed on that one.

I suppose while Saturn time traveling I would also need to tell the engineers: "You fools have chosen an absolutely epic sound chip, yet equipped it with an obscenely low amount of sound RAM that will totally gimp it!" and "Nice multicore system guys, the first ever, but how about you give it a better memory bus link between those two processors -- because every third-party is going to end up using only one processor when it's so complicated to program them to work together in dual core!"

Alas, the challenges of that config encouraged a select few developers to perform miracles and the result was some true classics, so this time traveling advice would risk spoiling all that.

Their strategic and engineering failures gave us some great 32-bit titles, despite it ultimately ending in doom.

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brxricano  Online

@runstalker: Yep, you know your stuff man!

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ThoughtPUNK

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Do we not do spell checks anymore for articles? I get that this isn't a newspaper, and they make mistakes too, but I'd like to see that made-up words like "maturer" don't appear in articles.

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GigaLoser

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@thoughtpunk: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/maturer

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Dumachum

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Edited By Dumachum

@gigaloser: Did you just cite a wiki in an atempt to be factual?

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ThoughtPUNK

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Edited By ThoughtPUNK

@gigaloser: Unfortunately the accuracy of an entry on Wiktionary can be called into question when anyone can edit it without any credentials. That allows slang to be entered. Or completely made up words. I don't see the word 'Maturer' in any other reputable dictionary. It's firmly supposed to be 'more mature'.

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clockworkengine

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He could have just flipped him off.

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ProjektInsanity

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Edited By ProjektInsanity

It's a shame, because the Dreamcast remains perhaps my favorite (and I think the best-named) console of all time. So many interesting/creative games. Just not enough broad appeal. The hours my friends and I sat around the couch and smashed some Powerstone...sigh. Also had, by far, the best-looking version of Soul Calibur at the time. I remember marveling and the lighting in that game.

I think a lot of the Dreamcast's failing, as the article implies, was attributable to a shift in gamers themselves. Sadly, SEGA couldn't seem to read the writing on the walls.

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wolfpup7

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@ProjektInsanity: As far as I know the only reason it failed was because Sega had to pull out of the market for lack of money. It was selling well and would have sold better had they had more money to invest in development and advertising, and not dumped it after a year. But even still it was on solid footing.

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GigaLoser

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@ProjektInsanity: The three big failures of the DC (one of my favorites as well) were:

Not great controller. The lack of a second analog stick and shortage of buttons made some games (and some game types) impossible.

Bad peripheral design/support. The VMU was supposed to be this cool way to keep gaming on the go. The problem was the battery life sucked and used 2 button cell batteries. So every couple of days it's five bucks in batteries. And the games weren't that good, weren't that plentiful, and they took up most of the memory on the VMU. A similar thing happened with the modem you could get.

Last, GD-ROMs. The Dreamcast used specially designed GD-ROMs, which held around a gigabyte of data. The other systems used DVDs which held four to nine times as much data. The biggest problem was that there was no copy protection with the DC, which lead to easy piracy. It also lead to easy homebrew, making it useful to home programmers.

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wolfpup7

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@gigaloser: Hardware-wise I hated how loud Dreamcast was, and I hated that controller. It seemed like if anything a step back from Saturn's controllers, and just bizarrely limiting. Not sure what they were thinking.

And yeah, the VMU's battery situation was lame, and it just wasn't that great.

Even still, strong library in the very short time it was around. Why the frack did I sell mine :-/

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dylan35

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@ProjektInsanity: wish my Day 1 9/9/99 t-shirt still existed

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Wow2

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Edited By Wow2

Lol, good stuff. He did well and sometimes telling em off is needed.

Also, Into the Badkands is awesome. Too bad it's only on cable.

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turkeygod

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EA was described by the focus group as the "arrogant quarterback"

After his time at Microsoft, Moore joined EA

in February he announced he would be leaving the company, and the games industry, to take up the role of chief executive officer for Liverpool FC, the English football team

love it when patterns appear in life like this

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OmniChris

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Sadly a lot of Japanese companies are run by senile wrinkly old men with outdated methods.. It's not just SEGA.. Nintendo, Atlus, Konami and even Capcom. It's not so much the games themselves are lacking in new ideas, it's their polices and lack of focus. :( The likes of SEGA only focuses on freakin Sonic the Hedgehog when they have a huge backlog of other franchises they could be delving into. Or into Konamis case, don't make games at all.. Just make freakin pinball machines. I doubt that's going to last them.

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Alexander_Mark

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Japanese teenagers have different personal preferences to US teenagers. Sega is also a publisher as well as a developer, meaning they have the franchise rights to a lot of good IPs. As a developer they are pretty average though.

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GOTZFAUST

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Gamespot, Rikiya Nakagawa wasn't the Jet Set Radio developer, he was the head of Sega AM1 and WOW. Yu Suzuki was head Sega Sega_AM2, and Oguchi was AM3 and Hitmaker

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LTJohnnyRico

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Shows how out of touch Sega Japan were with what their western audience wanted ! Shame really as it could have been so different !

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Spaced92

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Edited By Spaced92

Yeah maybe SEGA fell off for a while, but they make a lot of fun games while everyone wanted Moore to **** off from the games industry for over a decade and brought SEGA to its knees, how many 'worst company in America' awards did he get EA? Liverpool is perfect for this deluded clown.

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IcelandicHossi

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@spaced92: dude Sega had burned so many bridges and done so many half ass things (like the Nomad, Sega 32X and Saturn(in Americ/Europe)) that so many gamers literally gave up on them/ I did and moved to the PS2 and millions of other people did the same along with people who wanted a dvd player. Sega was never gonna beat the PS2 and they had been losing millions for a couple of years and only their arcades kept them alive but once that declined the party was over. If you are telling the japanese devs that there are problems and then the JAPANESE DEVS call you a liar that is some serious bs!!!! Sony was kicking their butt how did the Japanese devs not see that and it was happening in Japan so Japanese gamers also left them

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wolfpup7

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@icelandichossi: The Nomad was a cool idea, and I don't think was widely available anyway. Saturn was fine, just launched poorly in the U.S., and hurt by 32x.

32x is the real problem there.

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0hMyGandhi

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how many companies has this dude worked for? Jesus christ. How many second chances does this bastard get?

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e3man01

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You'll find fewer Sega honks bigger than myself. Looking back at the end of the Genesis era, Sega was directional challenged. Saturn was a bust in NA, overpriced, underpowered but far better at 2D games than PS1 (Sony was known to be highly anti-2D on PS1). Dreamcast was too little, too late. I remember the deals and sales Peter tried but they never moved enough units to make a big dent. PS2 was the death knell for Sega and their many mistakes from 94 on. If Sega's 3rd console was the DC instead, things would most likely be different.

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wolfpup7

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@e3man01: I think they just needed to skip 32x, and launch Saturn better. Ugh, I hate that it didn't do better in the U.S.

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IcelandicHossi

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@e3man01: you do know that if a Dreamcast like console got released in 1994 it would have been thousands of dollars plus it could never happen because the technology was not there. The best console that came out for game development was the PS1 as it was so easy to develop/cheap compared to the Saturn and N64.

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e3man01

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@icelandichossi: You misunderstood what I was saying, I wasn't talking about the literal system but rather the order. Had Sega had the success with the DC on console #3, it would be a different situation.

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