I started to type a reply to this comment and then realized that it illustrated some of the things I've been trying to deal with, so I might as well give it its own entry.
Yesterday, I received the following comment from user LSS_Fanatic regarding my blog about users trying to get banned:
To be honest, I think what you need to do is step back, take a look at where things are here at TV.COM, and ask yourself if you are happy with this situation. Remember when you were just a new person here and wanted to contribute to your favorite shows. Remember how it felt when or if you ever were reprimanded by some editor or moderator on a power trip. I think you do a great job - however, with all of these problems (people leaving, users getting moderated for absurd reasons, etc) you must realize that you are in a position of authority AND responsibility. Don't take either lightly. And don't play hide-away from users who do not have a rating here higher than 30. That is absurd. This is not a place of any significant importance. The moderators need to realize that this is simply a web site - nothing more, nothing less. This hierarchical structure here is nothing but laughable at best. Do what you think is right. Do a blog about something you enjoy, rather than something you feel obligated to do! HAVE FUN. ENJOY this website.
LSS_Fanatic - First of all, my sincerest condolences on your recent loss. I simply can't imagine what you must be going through right now.
That said, I still have to take issue with some of your points. In fact, three things in your comment point out exactly the sort of misunderstandings I've been trying to address:
- Remember how it felt when or if you ever were reprimanded by some editor or moderator on a power trip.
- (people leaving, users getting moderated for absurd reasons, etc)
- The moderators need to realize that this is simply a web site - nothing more, nothing less.
I'll address them one by one.
1) Remember how it felt when or if you ever were reprimanded by some editor or moderator on a power trip.
This is something I hear all the time, and I think it arises from a fundamental misunderstanding about moderators (I am an editor as well, but since we have so many editors on the site, I can't generalize about them as well as I can about the moderators). When some people are moderated they seem to think that it is somehow personal. That a moderator is wringing his hands and giving an evil laugh as he deletes the user's post. The truth is that moderation is a job, like any other. We have a list of things that other users have complained about, we go through that list one by one and determine whether or not there is really a violation of the Terms Of Service. We look at the post in question, we usually call up the thread it was a part of, and we try to tell whether there is any sort of mitigating factor. We also look at the board as a whole and the user's history, to give the situation some context.
The vast majority of such reports are open-and-shut cases. Someone complains that a post contains offensive material, censor bypassing, or flaming, and it very obviously does. The job only gets difficult in two situations: when the case is borderline, or when the user is very close to being suspended or banned. For a borderline case, we will usually bring it up with the other moderators and/or staff, and try to get consensus on how it should be handled. For users who are close to penalties, we slow down and make sure that this and all previous moderations are appropriate. If so, then we suspend them or contact staff and recommend a ban. If not, then we once again bring the situation up with the other mods and/or staff. For example, we have had users who got moderations from other CNET sites which we decided not to count for our purposes.
Sometimes when we look at the rest of the thread or forum (or just when we are moving about the site), we see other problems that we must address. We deal with these in exactly the same fashion.
This system just doesn't have room for "power trips" or personal bias. If any moderator is handing out inappropriate moderations, then they will eventually be found out by the staff and/or the other mods and they will be dealt with. Period.
2) with all of these problems (people leaving, users getting moderated for absurd reasons, etc)
This is actually one of the main reasons I started doing these blogs. I keep hearing accusations that we are moderating people for absurd reasons, but it simly isn't true. Believe me, whenever I read that in a blog or forum post I check the user's moderation history. In virtually every case the user was moderated for a perfectly good reason and there is no way they could not realize it unless they are completely ignorant of the Terms Of Service (and the general rules of netiquette and polite behavior). But since the offending post/signature/picture has been deleted, they can say whatever they want and since we respect the privacy of users, we cannot jump in and refute any of it.
Every once in a while I do come across a moderation that was more borderline. In these cases it is possible that the user didn't realize that their behavior was a problem. That is why moderations are considered warnings rather than punishments. If the user gets the warning that what they were doing was wrong, and then stops doing that thing, then they'll have no problem. If that moderation comes on top of the dozen times they've been caught flaming, cursing, and making lewd posts, then it'll be a problem. But in that case, they are not being suspended or banned because of the borderline moderation, it is because of the entire history of refusing the follow the rules of behavior on the site.
And let me repeat myself: if you honestly believe that you have been moderated unfairly, post a question in "Ask The Mods", send one of us a PM, PM a staff member, or send an email to support@tv.com if you are unable to use the site. You can even blog about it if you want, just don't flame the moderators, staff, or the people you think reported you (and users are almost always wrong about this too) and don't violate the rest of the TOS either (obviously). Despite rumors to the contrary, we will not moderate someone for saying that the don't like TV.com, the mods, the staff, or anything else. If we moderate such messages, it is because of how they say it, not what they say (see the first in this series of blogs for more about this).
3) The moderators need to realize that this is simply a web site - nothing more, nothing less.
The moderators and staff are very much aware of this. First of all, we are all users of the site first and foremost. We all edit our own guides and we all hang out with our friends in the forums and talk about our favorite shows. Second, we don't moderate users out of some misplaced sense of our own importance or the importance of this site. We moderate people because they violate the rules of the site. This is totally standard procedure for any website out there.
Going one step further, we might ask why the rules were devised in the first place. Well, the Terms of Service were mostly written when the site launched, and in fact are very similar to the rules from back in the days of TV Tome (only there were so few moderators then that the rules weren't enforced very well or very consistently, and then everyone complained about that). Some of the rules were changed to address the realities of this much larger site, some based on CNET's extensive experience with running such sites, and others in response to user complaints since the site opened. In every case, the rules are designed to protect other users from behavior that would make the site less pleasant for them. Being moderated because you called another user a bad name may not be very fun, but neither is the experience of having another user call you a bad name. Censor bypassing (partially hiding disallowed words, like "j*rk" if "jerk" were a curse word) may seem like no big deal to you, but many users (and the parents of many younger users) feel differently. "Spamming," talking off-topic, taking over threads and turning them into group conversations, all may seem like innocent fun to some, but to other users it means that they cannot find or participate in the conversations for which they came to the site in the first place.
In the end, all we are trying to do is to make the forums (and the site as a whole) more enjoyable for the majority of users. We don't think that this is some great work, we are just users of the site who volunteered at a time of need to help keep the forums fun and usable for everyone.
Finally, there are a couple things in this post that I don't think I quite understand.
"And don't play hide-away from users who do not have a rating here higher than 30. That is absurd."
I'm not sure what you mean by "hide-away" and I assume that by "rating" you mean "level." If I'm correct in this, I can at least assure you that we do not give preferential treatment to users based on their level. The first few levels are used to limit access to certain features (we want to be sure you're an actual user and not a salesman or a bot before we let you do things like use HTML in the forums or create your own topics). Otherwise, the levels are strictly for fun.
I'm also a little unclear on what you mean about the "hierarchical structure here". Is this also about levels?
Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I hope this became something informative for everyone.
Hurdy gur,
-Marc
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