GameSpot may receive revenue from affiliate and advertising partnerships for sharing this content and from purchases through links.

"There We Were, Killing Everybody," Supreme Court Justice Recalls About Playing Games Before Decision

Elena Kagan also says case was a "really hard case; super hard case."

173 Comments

Current United States Supreme Court justice Elena Kagan is again talking about the situation surrounding the high court's landmark 2011 video game ruling and how difficult it was for her. During an appearance this week at Harvard University, Kagan described the case as a "really hard case; super hard case."

In a 2011 interview, she revealed that she struggled "mightily" to come to a decision. She eventually voted in favor of striking down a law that sought to prevent retailers from selling violent video games to minors. By a 7-2 vote, the Supreme Court decided that the law was unconstitutional.

Also in her interview, Kagan shed more light on the events surrounding the decision, reiterating that that she, along with Justice Stephen Breyer, played a violent video game before making their judgement. The morning of the hearing, she asked her clerk if there was "a violent video game that everybody will know." The clerk suggested a game (it was not named outright, but Kagan says it was an "iconic, but dated" violent video game) and then she and Breyer played it in his office.

"There we were, killing everybody left and right," Kagan recalled. The Washington Post reports that this game could have been Postal 2 or Mortal Kombat.

She went on to say that she was really into the game and wanted to play round after round, but Breyer--who voted to uphold the law--found the game appalling and disgusting and wanted to stop.

"I was like, 'Next round, next round!'" she said. "I don't know if I should say this: It's probably reflective of the fact that we did come out on different sides of this case. I like to think there are better reasons than that."

Under the law, which never took effect, retailers that sold such games to minors would be subject to a $1,000 fine. The bill would also have required "violent" video games to bear a two-inch-by-two-inch sticker with a "solid white '18' outlined in black" on their front covers.

You can watch the full Harvard interview above. The video game talk starts at around 25 minutes.

Got a news tip or want to contact us directly? Email news@gamespot.com

Join the conversation
There are 173 comments about this story
173 Comments  RefreshSorted By 
GameSpot has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to toxic conduct in comments. Any abusive, racist, sexist, threatening, bullying, vulgar, and otherwise objectionable behavior will result in moderation and/or account termination. Please keep your discussion civil.

Avatar image for SaQu1B
SaQu1B

59

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By SaQu1B

lol typical Harvard liberal school discussion. It funny that I as a college dropout.. is more intelligent than any of them put together and even I know that video games don't cause shootings. Media trys to blame video game on everything.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Thanatos2k
Thanatos2k

17660

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@SaQu1B: Me fail English? That unpossible

Upvote • 
Avatar image for sweet_jcs
sweet_jcs

126

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@SaQu1B: "It funny that I as a college dropout.. is more intelligent than any of them put together"

No offense, but the grammar police called and they said to call bullshit on you being intelligent.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for normallygeneric
Normallygeneric

29

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@SaQu1B: Harvard liberal school? What the ****? I also kinda doubt you are smarter then Harvard graduates, but whatever.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for dylan35
dylan35

789

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

@SaQu1B: what do liberals have to do with conservative republican's wanting to rate and ban games?

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Darth_Ultima
Darth_Ultima

167

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dylan35: Conservative Republicans? You do realize that the legislation the supreme court was deciding on was written and sponsored by, Leland Yee, a liberal democrat state senator from California right? The most hilarious aspect about the whole thing was he was later caught having bought automatic firearms and shoulder fired missile launchers from islamic extremists and attempting to resale them.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for adamdroid
Adamdroid

58

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@Darth_Ultima: well yeah cause he played violent video games first!

Upvote • 
Avatar image for amaneuvering
amaneuvering

4817

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

If movies and stuff don't have to go to these extremes then I don't see how it's possibly fair that games should. If movies and stuff do, and I'm just not aware of it, then I guess it should actually be the same for video games, if we're being fair.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for FallenOneX
FallenOneX

2639

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@amaneuvering: The difference is that you actually control the actions of the protagonist when it comes to games. TRUST ME, I think that it's too small of a point to even matter, but that's what it boils down to. And to be fair, the film industry has come a looong way since even the 70's. Not a joke, but look at the adult entertainment being shown on HBO now (I chose this channel because they rarely, if ever, show films. their content is usually some form of documentary), and compare it to their content 15 years ago.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Buck_Swaggler
Buck_Swaggler

445

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I truly don't think this law would have any more success than current ESRB

Upvote • 
Avatar image for FallenOneX
FallenOneX

2639

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@Buck_Swaggler: It would if the state gets to see even a dime of that fine. Ever been to a liquor store (texas at least, and maybe once in Georgia) before a major holiday? Usually a cop standing right by the register waiting for you to show the cashier your I.D.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Thanatos2k
Thanatos2k

17660

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

At least they actually did some semblance of research by playing the games themselves. Other demagogues who try to damn gaming as causing violence or sexism don't even bother to play them, and are frequently wrong about the content as a result. You know the people I'm talking about.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for B0NES96
B0NES96

86

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

@Thanatos2k: Lol. Like that bitch that was talking bullshit about Mass Effect.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for sepir
sepir

111

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@B0NES96: But if they hadn't have had all the stupid news articles and Mass Effect didn't get banned in Singapore, I might not looked up what the actual story was about and played it (and played it many, many times). So I am definitely glad for stupid news people in its' case.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for B0NES96
B0NES96

86

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

@sepir: Lol. Yeah, free publicity.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for nurnberg
nurnberg

1313

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Typical vague and nonsensical Makuch headline, where you need to click on the article to know what he is talking about.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for cleevergreen
CleeverGreen

196

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

Edited By CleeverGreen

@nurnberg said:

Typical vague and nonsensical Makuch headline, where you need to click on the article to know what he is talking about.

How much do you get paid to anonymously troll a web site? Must take a lot of time and effort to type a whole sentence of vitriol. Are you tired after all that hard work? Looking forward to the weekend?

Upvote • 
Avatar image for nothingformoney
NothingForMoney

466

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@cleevergreen: Wow. I finally found someone who actually defended Clickbait Makuch

Upvote • 
Avatar image for cleevergreen
CleeverGreen

196

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

@nothingformoney said:

@cleevergreen: Wow. I finally found someone who actually defended Clickbait Makuch

I defend anyone that actually works for a living whether you approve of their job or not, since I know what that's like. Not that I would expect you to know anything about that "nothingformoney".

But I'm not so much defending him as I'm fed up with the nameless trolls who's only knowledge of communicating with others is to anonymously write negative comments on websites.

It's also more than a bit ironic that this new segment features an interview that takes place in Harvard, since some of you lot are the furthest thing away from a proper education.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for jenovaschilld
jenovaschilld

8031

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@cleevergreen: Well a few of us have graduated college, opened our own business and even raised a a few kids. But following your last comment, can you really defend the author of this article where the "bit ironic that this new segment features an interview that takes place in Harvard". I mean really is the body of the article fairly represented by the title for the reader.

There are alot of people who do great their jobs well and then their are alot of people who do their jobs well are doing it wrong- cops that man speed traps, actors who hock reverse mortgages, analysts hired to prove global warming is not real from a weeks worth of data, and lawyers that sue others because their coffee was 'too' hot.

I believe it is a fair criticism when readers complain that their newspapers are reporting yellow journalism, would that not also be true for web readers.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for cleevergreen
CleeverGreen

196

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

Edited By CleeverGreen

@jenovaschilld said:

@cleevergreen: Well a few of us have graduated college, opened our own business and even raised a a few kids. But following your last comment, can you really defend the author of this article where the "bit ironic that this new segment features an interview that takes place in Harvard". I mean really is the body of the article fairly represented by the title for the reader.

There are alot of people who do great their jobs well and then their are alot of people who do their jobs well are doing it wrong- cops that man speed traps, actors who hock reverse mortgages, analysts hired to prove global warming is not real from a weeks worth of data, and lawyers that sue others because their coffee was 'too' hot.

I believe it is a fair criticism when readers complain that their newspapers are reporting yellow journalism, would that not also be true for web readers.

No one who has a job talks like you.

And you see that? I made my point with a short sentence. Instead of a 155 words.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for jenovaschilld
jenovaschilld

8031

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By jenovaschilld

@cleevergreen: I am sorry but Eddie Makuch is the click bait hero of video game news sites. He basically follows the news wires and copy/pastes his articles, but of course adds his landmark salacious headlines which is his only real job.

I love gamespot for fast access to gaming headlines but enjoy other sites for real news journalism, I find the click bait news headlines misleading and irritating by eddie makuch but just another thing to have to put up with when reading news off the internet.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for cleevergreen
CleeverGreen

196

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

@jenovaschilld said:

@cleevergreen: I am sorry but Eddie Makuch is the click bait hero of video game news sites. He basically follows the news wires and copy/pastes his articles, but of course adds his landmark salacious headlines which is his only real job.

I love gamespot for fast access to gaming headlines but enjoy other sites for real news journalism, I find the click bait news headlines misleading and irritating by eddie makuch but just another thing to have to put up with when reading news off the internet.

Right. You say that, and yet you're here. Clicked the click bait, read it, watched the video, and then proceeded to write an 86 word comment about how this is click bait and you go to the other sites for "real news journalism".

Is that right? lol

Upvote • 
Avatar image for jenovaschilld
jenovaschilld

8031

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@cleevergreen: But the trap was baited really well this time !

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

@cleevergreen: What are you on about? I agree with him entirely here, his headlines are only to attract clicks(As they should), but I don't really see any trolling here.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for cleevergreen
CleeverGreen

196

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

@Smosh150: I've got news for you. ALL content for a site like this is meant to attract clicks. CBS isn't in it for the love.

And as you see, it works. You're here. But you're still complaining about it. That doth a mug make.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

Edited By Smosh150

@cleevergreen: Did you read my post through or did you just get to the "I agree entirely with him" part? Here is a quote from my post "attract clicks(As they should)", there is no trolling here, only the expression of opinion. Eddie's is just the most obvious out of all of them on this site, intent on garnering an intense reaction(Like most journalist want) however it is not unwarranted to complain about the ethics of such.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for jenovaschilld
jenovaschilld

8031

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@Smosh150: Agree with you, I just think most on here have been trained to forget that real news journalism, simply reports the news and investigates the facts - and that "what are the top 3 things in everyone bathrooms that can kill you" is not really news.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for LemonTones
LemonTones

54

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@cleevergreen: You're a smart person. I appreciate folks like you.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Oogazi
Oogazi

465

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Oogazi

For those who claim this is something that the law has no business being in, and that the responsibility is entirely up to the parents, the same argument could be made for the sale of alcohol and tobacco, or other paternalistic laws like wearing seatbelts. Clearly the law is involved, when it comes to the safety of children and to prevent harms to others. The point is, merely saying the law has no business in the sale of things that are potentially dangerous is simply not true. So the real question is whether violent video games are actually harmful, and how to balance consumer and retailer rights with the harm. The answer is not so obvious as some might suggest.

That being said, I in no way believe violent video games is harmful enough (or harmful at all) to warrant such an intrusion into consumer and retailer rights.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for solinvictus
solinvictus

225

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Edited By solinvictus

@Oogazi:

So you would let your kids smoke and drink if it was not against the law?

The government wont and cant be there to take care of your kids law or no law, many kids get a hold of alcohol in the US anyway while in countries that have no such laws or only loosely enforced kids dont drink as much as they do in US.

Those people who advocate personal responsibility are right. Laws dont solve every problem in fact often makes things worse. Sometimes the only thing a law accomplishes is throwing people in jail just like how they could make playing violent games illegal for children but that would not stop a single child from playing a violent game.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Oogazi
Oogazi

465

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Oogazi
@solinvictus said:

So you would let your kids smoke and drink if it was not against the law?

What? no that's not the point I'm making. I'm trying to say that just because the parents ought to have responsibility doesn't automatically negate the fact that the law cannot step in. The law steps in all the time when it concerns children. I'm not saying the parents aren't responsible (they should be), but I'm saying the argument that: "parents ought to be responsible, therefore the law ought not" is wrong.

But that is not to say that I think violent video games should be banned, or there should be legislation fining retailers who sell it to minors. My point was simple, i was challenging people's undersatding of why the law shouldn't be involved. I agree that the law shouldn't be involved, but not for the same reasons.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

Edited By Smosh150

@Oogazi: I don't think most are advocating for the dismantling of the ESRB system we have, but this bill was for any violent game, the range of which is unknown, but most are saying that the final decision on what is suitable is up to the parents and that violent video games in general should not be barred from children/adolescents.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for putaspongeon
PutASpongeOn

4897

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@Oogazi: The difference is that studies suggest there is no correlation between violent video games and crimes and there are established risks to alcohol and tobacco.

It's like saying "yes, a parent could let their kid go play on the playground, but they could also give their kid a line of crack, therefore the first decision is bad"

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Oogazi
Oogazi

465

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Oogazi

@putaspongeon: What you're saying is precisely the point I'm trying to make. I'm just trying to specify the considerations we need to make, instead of some comments here that throw a blanket statement about how the law should not be involved. The reason why the law shouldn't be involved is because there is no definitive or remotely conclusive evidence that there are risks involved with playing violent video games, not because the law is not in the business of making these judgments.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for MoreThot
MoreThot

401

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

Is this the same lady who tried to take guns off the shelves of stores stating if they weren't on the shelves people couldn't buy them? When was the last time you saw meth on the shelves?

Upvote • 
Avatar image for normallygeneric
Normallygeneric

29

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@MoreThot: Making something Illegal definitely helps though. In my country they made guns illegal not too many decades ago and I have never heard or seen a real gun getting shot, there is a almost non-existent amount of gun violence and there are no school massacres because what was the last time you heard of a school massacre with a knife or a baseball bat? The funny thing is, there were allot of privately owned guns because of the War of Independence back in 1995 but everyone just handed them in to the police because they had no need for them in civil life and did not want to risk getting fined.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

@normallygeneric: Actually there are quite a bit of knife massacres in certain countries, China specifically. I wouldn't go so far as to say it happens as much as gun related nor is it a great deal, but it is definitely more than you would expect.

https://www.google.com/search?q=china+knife+massacre&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Upvote • 
Avatar image for mnbmnbmnb107
mnbmnbmnb107

97

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@MoreThot: We have that with cigarettes where I live and it's helping.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Gynthaeres
Gynthaeres

28

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mnbmnbmnb107: And how many meth-heads do you know? I'd be a lot of money that the number of meth users would be drastically, drastically higher if you could just walk into a Walmart and buy Meth.

That's the point of those sales restrictions. Desperate people will always find a way, but people who aren't committed to doing it would be deterred.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for putaspongeon
PutASpongeOn

4897

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@Gynthaeres: The difference is that cigs and meth hurt the consumer, a gun can save their life, also they need licenses to get said guns, while the ones who are doing illegal activities will get guns anyway due to their resolve to do a crime.

More guns out there means when someone throws up a gun, the innocent people won't be defenseless and instead will throw up their guns, even the thought of that stops crimes from happening and actually makes the criminal think over their life.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for eloguvna
Eloguvna

345

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Well, Elena Kagan seemed to enjoy the game, and that's what it was made for, to have fun. Ultimately, it is the parent's responsibility to make sure what kind of game they are buying for their underage children, and moderating them. Why make things difficult for everyone else (who I'm sure are in the majority) that just wants to buy and play the game.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for bfa1509
bfa1509

1058

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

"If pacman had affected us as kids we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" - Some Guy

Upvote • 
Avatar image for BrunoBRS
BrunoBRS

74156

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

@bfa1509: i can't tell if you're making a joke about raves or it just happened to end up like that.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for olddadgamer
OldDadGamer

3788

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

OldDadGamer  Moderator

@bfa1509: Actually, that explains a lot about how I spend my weekends.........

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

@olddadgamer: Aren't you a lawyer or something, pills man? lol

@bfa1509: Though the electronic music did seem to stick.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for olddadgamer
OldDadGamer

3788

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

OldDadGamer  Moderator

@Smosh150: Yeah. I'm a lawyer.

And they're just breath mints. Really. For real.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

@olddadgamer: haha ok then, I can sympathize, I have an addiction to mint lifesavers.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for RossRichard
RossRichard

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By RossRichard

The whole 'games are for kids' stigma really needs to die. It was old when I was 7, and it is still old now. The average age of a gamer is 34.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

@RossRichard: Since when? I always thought that young adults and adolescents were the average gamer.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Lhomity
Lhomity

508

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

@Smosh150: The average young adult is playing mobile games, these days.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

Edited By Smosh150

@Lhomity: heh yea no kidding, I mean hell I like to play some mobile games when I'm killing time, but dang kids(YA too, but I see it more in kids) these days play mobile games way more than any other platform.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for jcharp
jcharp

884

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@Smosh150: Here's what the ESRB's statistics indicate.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Smosh150
Smosh150

3050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

@jcharp: Really, neat I did not know that tbh. I mean I figured around the early 2000's that may have been true, but I thought that changed with the advent of the newer generation consoles(By that I mean late 2005 and onward).

Upvote •