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Games will never be considered culture if they don't broach sensitive subjects, Kojima says

Metal Gear Solid creator Hideo Kojima says "games will only be games" if developers don't "cross that line"; expects Ground Zeroes to be controversial.

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If games are to be thought of as more than just that--games--they need to broach sensitive subjects, according to Metal Gear Solid creator Hideo Kojima. During a roundtable interview with the veteran designer attended by GameSpot, Kojima outlined his vision for how video games can reach the cultural level of movies and books.

"If we don't cross that line, if we don't make attempts to express what we really want to express, games will only be games," Kojima said. "If we don't try to go beyond that, we won't be able to achieve what movies or novels have achieved. I didn't want to stay away from these things that could be considered sensitive. If we don't go that far, games will never be considered as culture.

Also during the interview, Kojima likened himself and his team at Kojima Productions to the characters from Breaking Bad, who stop at nothing to make their message known.

"In Breaking Bad, I also see that these guys are trying to go to the limit; trying to take it as far as they can to try to get their message across. For us as well. In games we have to go to the limit; we want to stay within this limit of how far...pushing the boundaries of conveying our message. We look around and we don't see too many games like this; that is unfortunate," he said.

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For Metal Gear Solid V, the game's central theme is that of revenge. And to get this point across, prologue Ground Zeroes will feature some scenes that Kojima expects will be controversial. That said, he explained that he's not going to tone down the game's content just because some people might take issue with what he has to say.

"One of the main topics of Metal Gear Solid V is this chain of revenge. That is something that I really didn't want to step back from, I really didn't want to go around it," Kojima said. "I know that I will probably face a lot of criticism because of it but I really wanted to portray that accurately."

Finally, Kojima stressed that though Metal Gear Solid V is going to push the envelope, he doesn't think all games need to do this. "I don't think necessarily that all games have to go this far; in our case we have a strong message that we want to convey," he said.

Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes, the prologue to Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, launches March 18 for Xbox 360, Xbox One, PlayStation 3, and PlayStation 4.

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SebB

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Imo movies are at their best when they show what if scenarios. What if AI took over? What if the wrong army one? Etc. Because then they explore different scenarios and character behaviours and story arcs.

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uninspiredcup

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The problem isn't that Kojima handled it, it's how he handled it.

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sensei_hEnRY

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i hope Kojima could deliver intriguing story like one on Spec Ops: The Line which in my opinion, a third person shooter with the best story ever (and of course the most shocking and creepy one). Following a character's journey to insanity is always a great theme for me, just like in The Line, Call of Duty: Black Ops, and Far Cry 3. I really wish Kojima would make the same kind of story, driving Big Boss to insanity for his thirst for revenge. Making him do almost anything to accomplish his goal (just like how Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 forced us to be a terrorist and killing innocent people).


Oh yeah, i see kid soldier in the trailer, although i highly doubt Kojima would make us kill them, i hope MGSV could explore it deeper than any game before

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Looiook

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A very deep sigh at 90% of this comment thread.

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chisei_fuuma

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<< LINK REMOVED >> I still dont understand why people are being so negative over a humble old man's dream for the future....


wonder what Kojima think if he look at this thread, maybe he just laugh at us all...

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tightwad34

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Are you trying to speak for the entire industry? I don't think games are trying to be anything other than that. The only thing that matters to me is gameplay. You can take your confusing story, and hour long cutscenes and shove them until you come with a game that you can play that lasts at least longer than the cutscenes.Or Maybe I have been had by another BS gamespot article.

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YukoAsho

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Go play Spec Ops: The Line. Then play one of Kojima's overblown spectacles.


Which one has more social and cultural commentary? I'd say the former. The latter, especially as MGS has gone on, is nothing more than another Japanese anime story.


Also, being obsessed with "culture," is a sign that the man is an overgrown child. You put out your work, let it stand for itself, and the world decides if it's "culture."


Seriously, he's like a gaming Miley Cyrus...

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KiriharaZro

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So if I make a game with a soldier carrying a watermelon and a mute female "soldier" with a bikini in the middle of a battlefield I just made a piece of culture!!! but if I make a game of an italian plumber that steps in turtles then its only a game...

Kojima its becoming stupid more and more...

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tightwad34

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Ha ha, I totally get a bad vibe from him, but I guess he is the holy god to a lot of gamers out there.

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isshiah

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That outfit pushes some envelopes, alright.


You can't expect to be taken seriously if you have a character dress so moronicly. Fix that, then we can discuss mature topics at the big boys table.

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Brakkyn

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GameSpot should have a segment called "Kojima Says", seeing as how every time he says something, there's a news post about it.

Quiet's outfit is still ridiculous.

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tightwad34

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<< LINK REMOVED >> I'm pretty sure there are people out there that would eat his shit if they could.

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BradBurns

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@Brakkyn


I don't agree at all. I think that she's a very well designed character all-around. Most of this outrage at the character design was created by Kotaku, in some false attempt to garner views and ad revenue.

Kotaku is a pretty bad site and sort of a blemish and a curiosity in the video games enthusiast press.

They sort of behave like paparazzi in that they create fake tabloid-esque stories about nothing and then commence to attack famous developers for shock value. They do it a lot.

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YukoAsho

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<< LINK REMOVED >> I understand where you're coming from, but come on. Quiet is dressed stupidly for a sniper. Even Kojima admitted she was designed that way to sell figures and get women cosplaying her.

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iampenguin

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Agreed. Now give me the nasty.

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WR_Platinum

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Bravo Kojima, I like to see games being taken more seriously by the media.

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mav_destroyer

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Maybe if developers stop making 2 hour long games and charging ridiculous prices then they'll be considered culture.

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JethroThePoet

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Over 10 hours of solid content you mean? ha get it?

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DeFiLeDTitan

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1. Why does the guy in that picture have a watermelon?

2. Why can't games just be games?

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DarthLod

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Games aren't culture, they are games. That's it. Why must everything be some social hogwash these days? There is no "gaming community" either.

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tightwad34

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<< LINK REMOVED >> It's a mix of Gamespot's and Kojima's bullshit.

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kainisdead

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i am ALSO 100% okay with games not being culture. and why would anyone want them to be.

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blackace

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I have two words for Hideo Kojima. SUCK IT!!


I cancelled my MSG5: GZ preorder. Guy has no respect for Western culture or our people at all.

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BradBurns

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If Kojima really wants games to tackle sensitive subjects,he should start with tackling obvious "sensitive" subjects like "why are we in the Middle East?" and "Why do we happen to back all the worst, most brutal dictators in the world?". Obviously it's all strategic/economical.

Until he tackles stuff like that I can only see his games as entertainment about cool robots. And by sensitive subjects, I don't mean people being offended by bras, fishnets, or showing too much skin because that's just, well, kinda dumb.

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bwvictorious

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<< LINK REMOVED >>
He does tackle those sensitive subjects....
I cant explain why without spoilers but I suggest you play the previous games and pay attention to the story lines.

Theres a reason why Naked Snake starts as a loyal soldier and ends up a "terrorist".
Check out what they did to Raiden and why?
99% of metal gear's npcs are seriously messed up.

Metal Gear has always been horribly controversial.

Not Kojima's fault that nobody wants to pay attention.

As for the nudity... have you seen miley cyrus lately? if she can go on public tv then metal gear is fine.
Oh... i forgot... Miley is culture and metal gear is just a game...

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BradBurns

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> Actually, I agree with you on all the points you raised.

I think that Kojima needs to make it more overt.

It's sort of like our culture has been trained to ignore serious critiques of our foreign policy, even when it's staring us right in the face. You're just not supposed to go there, mentally.

As for the nakedness, I agree with you on that as well. I meant that I find it sort of ridiculous that people are offended by that. I think it's just Kotaku making a big deal out of nothing for views and ad revenue.


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angry_cowtipper

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I am 100% okay with games not being culture.

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MonstaTruk

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When I go to MickeyD's, am I looking for a tantalizing meal of exotic flavors with deep nutritional value? Or did I come to get a Double Quarter Pounder? I'm looking for FASTFOOD, should MickeyD's be forced/expected to give me what Red Lobster/Tony Roma gives me? Is it possible to just let the people who've BEEN eating & enjoying MickeyD's continue eating & enjoying what MickeyD's has always been/delivered? Why SHOULD it be something else? Because...YOU say so?

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chisei_fuuma

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Yes they dont have to, But if they give it, will you be angry or will you just take it with a smirk?


That is called "added value" brother :D

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chisei_fuuma

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I also think its ok if games is just games, the only thing that needs to be good is graphic and gameplay. But why it is not ok if games also have deep story?


Im someone who like to balance fun and seriousness in my gaming, and i feel that games with deep story other than MGS is only Kingdom hearts and The last of Us, and of course i think that is very little

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TheLeftHandDoom

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uh, you've heard of "Mario" right? You don't think that's part of our culture? Aside from the overt racism of an Italian plumber fighting Goombahs while jumping into sewer pipes, what sensitive subject did Mario cover?

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chisei_fuuma

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<< LINK REMOVED >> uh..like...plumber is short and fat maybe :D

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YukoAsho

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<< LINK REMOVED >> I think there should be room for everything across the entire spectrum. High-brow stuff for the people who drink their tea with a pinky raised, action stuff for the dudebros, light-hearted games for families, even the occasional crazy-ass party game. Kojima just strikes me as another insecure games industry person seeking the approval of people who will NEVER like gaming.

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ANUBISZER0

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That watermelon is controversial!

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BradBurns

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Well, yes, some people are offended by seeing melons in videogames.

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CrouchingWeasel

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<< LINK REMOVED >>

BASTARD!!! I was just typing a watermelon line.

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FBohler

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Am I the only one who's ok with games being just... games?

Games are meant to be games, not paid demos (that one goes for you Hideous Kojima)!

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Shewgenja

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I agree with him. He has the star power in the games industry to pull it off. I say go for it.

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Poodger

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Why should I care if they are considered culture or not? I don't play games to express myself or learn about others. I play games for one mind numbingly simple reason: to have fun when I get off work. Whether or not people view them as art or culture or what have you doesn't change that a damn bit.

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cws3e

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<< LINK REMOVED >> actually it does. The laws that regulate games are different if they are art, versus if they are not. If they are not art the government has the right to ban them outright, so if I were you I would care very much that the media be accepted as an art form.

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RG923

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Literature, film, and poetry can entertain, but they can also enlighten. Art has the ability to teach us how others think, feel, and see the world. That's a very valuable asset. We can still enjoy media while we also learn and improve our capacities for empathy and understanding.

Video games can join those ranks, and they've already made strides towards doing so.

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Poodger

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >>Here is the thing. I teach literature for a living. I don't look for these things when I go home to play video games. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how society views video games. All that matters is whether or not they accomplish what individuals buy/use them for. And for me, it is to unwind and have fun. This debate about whether or not they should be "considered" as art or not seems rather pointless to me. Art is in the eye of the beholder, I don't understand why people need someone else's verification

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hikaruai

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >>you sound like a shitty literature teacher...literature is an art, but you don't care how the world sees art?...what a philistine thing to say

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FBohler

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> Expecting more than just fun from a game is like blaming the the games for murders and other crimes. It is wrong. Games are meant to be simple and harmless pleasure, not to teach people anything, hence the prevailing fantasy plots which are farther and farther from reality.

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BohemiaDrinker

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> I think that Kojima's point had less to do with "what people consider" and more to do with "what you're actually allowed to do in a game". In that sense, I agree with him; I like the "point-shoot-kill" stuff as much as the next guy, hell, I have 550 hours logged on Mass Effect multiplayer alone, BUT I'd also like to have games which deal with more sophisticated, mature or complex themes. Those things are not mutually exclusive, but games are still in a place in which you can only go so far. That IS changing though, only slowly.


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hystavito

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> That's a good point. Why is games being "just games" considered such a bad thing? I don't really like this notion we are getting lately (especially from gaming press) that certain games are "more", or should be "more".


It's like people want to validate games as an art, but at the same time they invalidate them because of the "more" concept, or at least invalidate like 99% of them. I've said this many times, I think that whenever you have a consumer product that is also in the realm of art, many people involved fall into this trap, this stuck in the middle situation.


To be totally honest, I would expect someone that teaches literature to fall into it more easily :). It's very interesting that you haven't.

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