Epic likely not Natal-izing shooters - Bleszinski

I think they are being lazy and couldn't be bothered to make the game better. Just like GEARS 2 online it is worse than some no name developers online modes... I guess shipping buggy and games full of glitches is top priority.

kvan33, throwing a grenade in every game I've played usually consists of pressing one button. I'd much rather press a single button than take my hand off of the controller and wave my arm about. Of course, the advantage may come in terms of controlling the velocity of the grenade, but Natal may very well end up being used to recognize preset motions over 1 to 1 movement in such cases.

@ xophaser Then maybe get in shape so you can keep up. It helps trust me. I think the concept would be sweet if you could work in some kind of motion capturing mat or something along with some sort of realistic gun that fires when you pull the trigger and aims where you aim. Would be very neat to see.

I think Cliffy B is on to something when he says, "But I think there's ways that you could merge the two interfaces and supplement a classic game with Natal controls to make something compelling." Imagine a shooter that uses a controller, but you can throw grenades by moving your arm in a throwing motion. Stuff like that would be a good blend of the technology, and free up alot of currently awkward button presses that some FPS currently use for actions.

The porblem with Natal is in most games standing in one spot won't cut it. Running, dodging, jumping, climbing, shooting - can't really do it - at least from what I saw. Most modern games are more then jusy flapping you hands to hit back a ball in some 3D brick-breaker.

At least MS is pushing the envelope of innovation...... the Wiimote has been done already, what's the use in ripping off Nintendos gig? Sony's wand is too close to the Wiimote for my taste Natal is something totally fresh and new... it might not be for some of us hardcore gamers, but it is innovative and fresh none the less....... either way I think both Sony and MS ultimately are barking up the wrong tree, and will lose millions.

yes, us our pointing fingers in a gun formation to shot, just like when we were kids imaging our fingers were guns. Bang, bang bang. Anyways, the natals might be a good exercise for some people. I get tired after 30mins swinging my arms at some wii games.

thats the smartest choice that cliffy b has ever made.

Natal is going to fail horribly just like the PS2 Eye Toy did.

who would have ever though a country like israel would create a system like the natal but i guess it was for military apps first and foremost b4 MS bought them out and called it proprietary

Natal has potential but that potential will probably narrow down to a few genres when it comes to gaming. I don't believe it will ever replace the controllers for primary control but consider secondary or less important actions. There might be some actions,say a simple one like opening a door in a survival-horror which might be done by a flick of the controller but with Natal it might add a fair amount of realism. THAT is where I think Natal can develop into something more. Natal will take time to be implemented into games. No developer will want to experiment wildly with it right off the hook. But say,three four years down the line we might really see how Natal fares.

Hey Cliffy, the "classic control interface" is WASD, not thumbsticks. Thumbsticks are the current control interface.

Its a good chance that companies will play it safe and make alot of Rail Shooters for Natal at first, until someone takes the 1st step and make an actually FPS.

This news in no way upsets me...

@Rudorlf: No kidding, and no one ever got or STAYED rich by blowing their money either.

I think natal is one huge poopburger of a device. it's moneysofts attempt at taking from the wii and from it's predecessor the dreamcast and titles like seaman.

@ alkaline_DnB Agreed, Natal should not cost a bomb for us gamers, as not all of us are rich...

@alkaline_DnB: Yeah, but that reveals the LIE in current Motion Sensing on all platforms: it's not REALLY tracking what you do. Like the Segway, you could convievably move through slight postural changes. Shoot with any given movement... of course, why is that better than a controller? lol. Oh right... you said it man, it will cost a lot, and hence, CHA-CHING for MS, and Sony, who doubtless want a piece of the hardware-gimmick love people seem so willing to dive into. Now, if Natal could track the collision of one sword blocking another... oh wait.. we don't HAVE realtime physics that realistic... riiiiight. so this is, in the end a toy without anyone or anything to play with it. This generation CANNOT PRODUCE 1:1 Motion Control, even if the sensors can detect all motion; it does not translate to what happens in the game. People WISH they had to run and duck, instead of move mere centimeters... just like the Wii, and probably the Wands.

Not that I give a crap about Natal, but does it really matter what this guy thinks? Gears of War is so overrated it's pathetic.

Oh, and am I the ONLY person who doesn't want to be constantly in front of a VIDEO CAMERA streaming my image online? I won't lie, I've been clear that I dislike all motion control as it exists right now, but... a camera? It's why I hated the EyeToy (ok.. ONE reason I hated it). When did people decide that anonymity online is a BAD thing?

i think a lot of people are misconceiving that a FPS using natal would require you to march in place or run around the living room in order to move your on-screen character...yes, that would be rediculous and stupid. i think it would be more like metroid or the conduit, which requires the use of a controller...therefore, i expect a lot of peripherals to be sold as add-ons for a true natal experience...it's going to cost a lot.

@ Rudorlf i can answer your number 1. I'm pretty sure moving can be walking/running in place, or doing the army march in place.

@5sonic: Don't get me wrong, I have no SPECIFIC issue with Natal, anymore than I do with the Wii, or the Sony "Wands". I'm happy to see progress, but I'm not convinced that this actually a move forward in gaming. Yes, it's a technical achievement, but it isn't really a new interface or tech. This is motion capture using the visible spectrum instead of IR and reflectors. In practice, turning the technology's ability to track motion, and turn that into complex physical interactions within the game is beyond current (affordable) technology. I would rather see exploration into more multi-touch screens, gestural interfaces using much simpler tech, and more sophistaced SOFTWARE. I can't really go into all of the technical issues without exceeding the char limit, or boring everyone present. Besides, most people here are pretty hardcore. I understand... MS 360 wants to be a 1 stop entertainment "destination". Well, I'd say the biggest step MS took over any other was the Netflix move. If Natal functions were built in at the normal price-point, maybe it would be worth the $$$ for the small benefits. However, it won't be cheap, and it may or may NOT get 3rd party support.

the problem isn't natal. it's the shooters. like we really need another one in this market... not that i support natal, but we may as well get rid of all the problems and gimmicks with gaming today.

@Rudorlf I guess no one at Microsoft came across those problems or questions when the Idea for natal was being developed.............lol yeah....

Sounds nice for Natal-izing shooters, but just a few thing... (With agreeing a few things what airsoftmanic and a few people said.) 1) How are you going to move your character, by running towards till you crash your TV or other stuff? (You'll need a big-@$$ stadium to move around and play!!! Or you'll need a multi-directional treadmill to move your legs.) 2) Can it differentiate your finger movements and determine that you are either trying to shoot, chainsawing, '4x zoom' your sniping view or to throw grenades? 3) Worse, using it to play stunt games like Max Payne... (Try imagine you doing a real stunt to save your precious life in the game and end up in a coma by smacking your head on your TV in real-life...) 4) Tired people just want to play in a controller and not moving their body around. However, Natal can be used on certain games in a good way, like: 1) Playing Dance Dance Revolution. Now with this little gadget, you can say goodbye to your old DDR mats. 2) Play Para Para Paradise Revolution without pods. If Microsoft can pull this feature off, They ROCK!!! (Me and my friends are still playing it at the arcade, and some of them are pro.) 3) Fighting games is good too. (As long as you keep your distance from your TV to avoid accidentally kicking it, or try not to slip while doing a combo.) Conclusion? A lot of things have to be consider and done right before they Natal-izing shooters in the future.

Natal will be nice AFTER all the bugs are removed. If they plan on this to work straight out of the get go it will fail but i believe it will work

Natal would be best for Survival Horror >.> since you play as normal humans without any special powers. no stupid motions to do to pull off a superhuman feat.

If Natal technology can scan my W,A,S,D fingers as well as my mouse motion, then I would Looooove to have this one!!! (juts a silly way to say wireless "invisible" W,A,S,D, keyboard and mouse)

I didn’t think they would be making games for natal. Natal looks cool but I agree with those saying that it’s a gimmic designed to blur the line between the 360 and the wii. I’m sure it will be fun for those wii sports-like games but I hope we don’t see a Gears or Halo on it: at least not without some sort of controller involvement. What is ironic is that natal will bring the 360 closer to the realm of interactive home media player, what the hardcore 360 fanboys have been making fun of the ps3 for being. I’m just glad that it’s now “okay” for a game console to be a media player too.

@BlueBirdTS wow you have absolutley no idea what you are talkning about do you. bioshock is not even remotely like system shock. bioshock has a totaly diferent mood and setting. exept for both being shooters there isent mutch that is the same. so you migtaswll have said that bioshock is just a dumbed down copy of every other shooter there is.

bah...natal...heres the problem with natal..not only is it a COMPLETE rip off of the FIRST eyetoy (ouch recycled technology) but like the FIRST eyetoy its to gimicky! i mean seriously, i dont see people implementing that technology in any games that matter.... its garbage that natal won that award for being impressive when in the end its just a PS2 peripheral re-hash (that hurts doesnt it?...but its true)

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Thank god for that, MS YOUR NOT GETTING YOUR HANDS ON THIS ONE. Good for you blezinski

i think sony fanboys are wondering why GS is natalizing our headlines with this garbage. we dont care about it nor want to read about it.

I think Sony fanboys are mad that their "EyeToy" creation from e3 is not getting any press whatsoever... I do not want FPS getting "dumbed" down either, but if they find a clever way to incorporate both into a game and can make it work, then I am all for it.

good cause Natal and all other motion sensing stuff is DUMB!!

Natal?...we have seen it on eyetoy, what so revolutionary about it? U can't move forward & backward in a fps game. Perhaps u have to be in a constant 'swimming stance' to move about. Maybe Fable will be a game like the good old days where adventure game are in 'point & click'...that's natal.

They are doing the right move, letting other companies experience the Natal and se how they fail or win, instead of jumping in and messing up a centerpiece like Gears for lack of experience.

I don't care about motion/camera-based controls. If developers want to experiment and add them, that's fine; make them secondary controls. I think at the end of the day, anyone playing a shooter online is going to want to pick up a controller, and like magusat999 said, it's not that hard to develop two control schemes, and is what personally turned me off of a lot of Wii games. You have gamecube controller ports and classic controllers sitting there, never getting used. I'm glad to hear that Epic isn't going to make the same mistake.

I won't say that NATAL sucks, but, it is definitely gimicky and geared for the casual gamer. I will ALWAYS prefer the controler, or the keyboard/mouse over gimicky control setups. While NATAL has proven to be very cool, it is definitely not something to be used in a shooter, as well as alot of other genre's of games. That video with Moleyneaux was cool, but that is the type of stuff it should be used for. That guy does do some cool stuff.

Bleszinski is at the forefront of the mainstream movement that is dumbing down games. Dumbing down works fine when you're talking about shooters such as Gears of War, but Bioshock is a butchered version of System Shock 2 with a graphical and audio makeover. Same thing goes for Bethesda with Oblivion and Fallout 3.

Thanks God. There's still hope that the games that all of us love and like will not be motion-dumb-friendly any time soon.

Don't change a winning formula until somebody totally one-ups you or you complete the main story arc. Look at Natal when you've got a great idea for it. If you don't have a good idea, just leave it be. That said, I always thought FPS and shooters in general would move more towards light-gun stuff. Camera totally controlled by the light-gun controller and is directed wherever you want to look and shoot...that sort of thing.

Yes I agree, shooters need more rocket propelled grenades.

natal seemed good for games it is intuitive for like driving. but in those games there's only like 3 controls. playing CoD on it would be a hurdle

I totally agree with Cliff concerning Borderlands. It's not getting enough hype. I like the new look, it reminds me of Fist of the North Star for some reason. Also, the future of FPS is combining with the RPG. Man 10 years ago when I hated FPS and loved J-RPG's I would say your crazy, but after playing BioShock, yeah FPS characters need development like a RPG. Developers please heed Cliff's advice.

natal sux

@nappan: Sorry, when I said out there I meant between the 3 shown at E3, WM+, the Sony Eye thing, and Natal. But don;t you unerstand, it may not be the best gaming idea out there but it will do two things. A.) Make people (older adults) intimidated by a console less afraid if they can just speak and have the console do what they say. B.) Microsoft has already said it, they want Xbox to be, not only a gaming console, but an entire multimedia package that is less expensive than other products of the like. And, crap I hope this isn't classified MS info, my cousin said he heard(heard, not definately true) that Natal will have a joystick type thing resembling the Wii nunchuck, that has a thumbpad and a few buttons. I hope Im allowed to say that. =0

Other than a way to import something into the game space or minor interface navigation I think motion controls are a waste of time. Kind of like how the pointer mechanic on the Wiimote = good. Motion Controls of the Wiimote = fail... I would love the ability to play a game with a controller, and navigate menus with a pointer of sorts instead. I also like the idea of simple hand controls to start up a movie or such... But it seems like such a huge investment for little value.