Carmack 'not all that excited' about next-gen

They can build experiences while providing better CPU, they just have to find smart ways to amortize. Cell phones and smart gadgets have been doing it for years now. I think that 5 years is plenty of time to have considerable technological growth.

Anyway,

Dear Mr. Carmack,

AI, AI, AI.

Artificial Intelligence.

Improve, A LOT.

That goes for the other developers.

Thank you for your concern.

Jam

"If you take a current game like Halo which is a 30Hz game at 720p; if you run that at 1080p/60Hz with high dynamic frame buffers, all of a sudden you've sucked up all the power you have in the next-generation. It will be what we already have, but a lot better. [...] But it is not like the first time you have ever played an FPS. It will not be like putting yourself in the virtual world. [...] That will be more of the discontinuous step like we have had with first going to 3D or first using a mouse."

He's saying that the next-gen isn't going to offer much beyond 60 FPS at 1080p, which won't significantly enhance the experience. In other words, you completely misrepresented his opinion.

Terrible article.

Mah-Cooch???

I like how his comments are taken out of context. He recently developed an improved virtual reality interface and believes that virtual reality is the way forward at the moment. He's trying to spark interest in developing the technology. According to Carmack, if a major company like Sony got behind the idea we would have affordable virtual reality within a few years.

Apparently the technology he is working on is the best vr interface yet made and extremely immersive (even in its crude form). I'd say that's pretty exciting - I can see why graphical power is less impressive to him.

New consoles would be nice if they could really ramp up the graphical power of the system and do something innovative. I'd much rather see developers, however, actually make some true AAA quality games. When a game launches at $60, it should be worth $60. I realize that that'll always be a personal opinion, and to each their own, but most games just leave a lot to be desired.

I just find it sad that each year my interest is piqued by so many games, yet I'm ultimately disappointed by overly easy games, unfinished games, or games that just don't live up to their hype. Maybe it's just me but developers seem to be getting lazier and lazier. Screw this stupid yearly release and rushed launches crap, and for the love of god start making top notch games again.

We're only about halfway there with the top of the line x2 gpu's. They need something far better than the best out there now for the PC, and be able to do it cheaper, and with less power.

DX11 just isn't next-gen. Sure I LIKE DX11. 5850 did it decent. My GTX 670 rocks it. But a 690 isn't next gen. We're about 2-3 gpu generations away from a feasible upgrade, and in the meantime, newer dx/open gl versions will come out, coding will get better.

Sure it would be nice to have 360 at PC level, but it's not like the 360 is that much worse. Just no dx11 and lower res.

The costs going up are a bunch of bull. Maybe they need to pay for a decent number of coders to get to know the game and thus the first games are coded slower. The games tend to be a certain length. Use a certain amount of various aspects from music, to scene detailers, voice talent, etc.

It's just not a big leap. Nowhere near the leap that ps2/xbox made to ps3/360.

Even then what they are probably going to bring out is like 2010 pc tech, and people want this small upgrade to be the console they game on until 2020 or so? If the reports are true 2010 pc tech should be changed to 2010 low end pc tech, because the 5770 budget dx11 card is hella faster than the 6670 that is rumored to be in it.

These next gen systems are turning out to be more like sega cd upgrades. But hey at least you got CD player with those useless upgrades.

The pc tech AND coding just isn't ready for a medium cost (<600), let alone a low cost (<400) replacement for the 360/ps3 that is worth the upgrade. If you already ditched a low end dx11 card for a newer one, congrats, you already sold/got rid of a card better than the rumored 'next-gen' console graphics.

Again here is a current $399 card that you can buy NOW for your PC vs the rumored one in 'next gen'. This card ain't even next gen, and the 6670 sucks.

http://www.hwcompare.com/12511/geforce-gtx-670-vs-radeon-hd-6670-oem-1gb/

The 4870 IF it had dx11 would thrash this card....yep here it is.

http://www.hwcompare.com/10900/radeon-hd-4870-1gb-vs-radeon-hd-6670-oem-1gb/

Oh wait, let me play GPU limbo...how low can you go...how low can you go....

Here's a 3870, yep an ancient 3870 vs the supposed 6670 'next gen' card.

http://www.hwcompare.com/10918/radeon-hd-3870-1gb-vs-radeon-hd-6670-oem-1gb/

Well the earliest they had was the 3xxx ATI, and even the 3850 trounces the 6670. Yeah there are 'lower end' ones that beat it, but you get the point. If you got a medium/high end card five generations ago, your card is significantly faster than the rumored GPU inside the 'next gen' system.

Just amazing. Carmack is right. They need to focus on delivering a better experience, but that ALSO falls on game developers. Not just hardware makers. He seems to forget that. Hardware makers make the hardware. Game devs, make the games. Console wise, next-gen isn't anywhere near, and while some company can idiotically create a new console whenever they want, it would be idiotic to put out a 1/4 step upgrade.

Do fanboys that expect Microsoft & Sony to go all out in graphics & power again with PS4 & Xbox 720 realize that most publishers/developers (along with the people that work for the companies like David Jaffe & John Carmack) are scared of next generation because of even more higher development costs of making games for next gen platforms? Because that's where it's only going to lead to with even more newer tech.

IMO, the only company out of the three that has a valid reason to make a huge graphics & power jump in the first place is Nintendo with Wii U. Microsoft & Sony SHOULDN'T EVEN TRY to do that with PS4/720 like they did with PS3 & 360 after Xbox & PS2.

For the sake of 3rd party developers involved in which more higher development costs would come into play next gen, they should really only try to match the Wii U in power & graphics, & all three console companies should make the hardware that's VERY, very easy for 3rd party developers to make games on as easier as possible.

We want the "knobs" turned up, Carmack! That's what next-gen is... bigger,better, MORE. I know iD is content with current gen because all their games are either in the dark, so you can't see any level design, or they have no interactivity within the level, using all rock-solid set pieces. iD is definitely NOT the developer it used to be.

Eh, respect his thoughts but...nah. It's time. I want more performance. Higher frame rates, more complex A.I. and so forth and the limitations are in the hardware it seems. But TBH I think devs have just become complacent and that's why we see such low levels of polish in big budget games. (Bf3 comes to mind) They're dependent on their hardware and not on their own technical skills like in the past. They need to be less ambitious and do a better job of balancing the technical feats with overall performance.

I just want a massive memory upgrade to the current consoles. Graphics horsepower is acceptable. But I would love be able to have multiple games loaded at the same time and be able to instantly switch between. Or even to be able to browse the web without shutting down my games.

I like and respect Carmack but I think it's time for a hardware upgrade. I agree in the end that fun and gameplay is what really matters but the current gen has gone just about as far as it can go technically. He might be right though about the increase in cost to produce big budget titles but I don't think the leap will be as great as it was last gen.

Unless the next gen of consoles can make me a cup of tea In the morning, predict the winning lottery numbers and produce a sex slave resembling Kelly LeBrock when she was In Weird Science then Its just not good enough !

though rage was a crap game, it's good to see people with some sense in the industry.

i personally to give a crap if i see sweat driping or beards shaking, and it seems to be the only thing the next gen of consoles are all about...beard shaking power

sure, current gen consoles are at it's limit but how many devs have actually explored this gen's current capabilities besides gears of war on the 360 and uncharted on the ps3.

it's a scam and it's idiotic. we are getting a lot of good games now for this gen but if the next gen starts it's crap lauch games again for at least two years.

count me out. corporations can eat my ****

well i'm just an allround gamer got a 3ds(ninty and rpg) got a vita and a ps3... had an xbox but it burned.. and got a kickass PC... now i'm realy looking forward for Beyond: Two Souls and the last of us, and i think its a fitting swansong for the ps3... and can't wait to get my hands on both of them... but altough these games look pretty especially on a 6/7 year old system... it is a grandpa of a console, in technical terms. tough altough PC looks better you cant say by miles, yes 1920x1080, yes full msaa ect ect... where reaching a point that gameplay and graphics are getting stale...

yes BF3 looks awesome on a HD7970... its like 22 million. times more powerfull as the 7000 series that's in the ps3.... does it look 22 million times better... or does your fancy i7 or FX8150 resould in that much more advance in ai... they should but they don't, consoles and games drive the PC tech its bin that way ever sin's the PS2 but now the consoles are about to be outclassed by smartphones and tablets... i'm ready for the new cycle to commence.... the friggin IPAD is capable of a higher resolution than your console... horsepower not there yet but in the next 2/3 years, think that for relevance other than buttons... we need an upgrade and like yesterday...

I think it's time for better hardware, and I find it astounding that one of the biggest proponents of great technology is suddnely doing an about-face.

Just to take a quick comparison of Skyrim on PC and Xbox (I played both versions extensively) one of the biggest differences was load times, especially when loading large areas...around 1-5 seconds on PC, and a whopping 30+ seconds on Xbox. That's a huge difference.

Also, the xbox version would lag to load scenery sometimes, whereas the PC never did...it was a smooth, beautiful experience even with the HD textures.

I still enjoyed the xbox version, don't get me wrong, but once I played the PC version, I could not help but notice the massive differences between the two versions.

So yeah, it's not only about the visuals, but load times and frame rates too. Just having those improvements alone would make games more enjoyable.

If the next generation of hardware is to last anything from 6-8 years (As one would expect) but the power levels of the new consoles aren't significantly better, that means in 2020 we'll be playing games that look and perform pretty much like today's games. Personally, I find that totally unacceptable.

Gameplay is king yes, but newer and better tech does also drive the industry.

I am agree with him, they should work more on the Experiences than Graphic, specially new revolution on A.I system in video games!

They don't like it because the risks are going to be higher for them because with better graphics comes a higher cost of development which means that if one of their games doesn't do well they will loose a huge amount of money.

To me this argument is invalid because they can easily just focus on making a great game before release. This speaks to the mediocrity some developers have, for them is not about trying to make the best game possible is about what they can get away with. :S

Only thing that seems odd is the two people mentioned in this article are behind awesome games so they shouldn't worry to much.

I just want all games to run at 60 fps minimum. Is that too much to ask?

@sonjoza How was Metroid Prime Trilogy a poorly executed release? I thought it was fine for what it was, though I don't like shooting with the Wii remote, and missed the lock-on feature of the original games.

I'm not excited because I have a PC. The next gen is already here for me.

"It will let us do everything we can do now, with the knobs turned up." Sounds good to me

Carmack skipping next Gen like a Boss!

last time i checked thats what they were doing. nothing at E3 for either's next gen machine and nothing but rumours as to when anything will be revealed or released. the guy may as well have not said anything basically.

I think next gen. will be in year 2565 or less

So we're going to see an ID title on the WiiU? Someone tell Carmack that until he remembers how to write code for the PC he should STFU

Maybe Carmack should focus on making good games.

Not really shock when you consider that their main rival Epic games is pushing for better next gen hardware to run Unreal 4. Maybe Id should spend more time making games that don't take 10 years to come out.

Why would a guy who spent his whole life touting graphics and tech specs suddenly be down on next gen hardware? What a damn hypocrite Carmack is. Hey John, we don't all want weak future consoles like WiiU!!

I'm getting kind of tired of this talk. Whatever happened to man's quest for more power. It seems like a lack of ambition. As mentioned, not only would the graphics improve but so would A.I., physics, and processing power overall. I think the better the hardware is the better and more engrossing video games can be made.

And the talk of them being able to do everything they want on this generation... Riddle me this- Why the hell does BF3 not look as good on consoles compared to PC and only has 12v12! (To name one instance.)

Coming from a guy who, yeah, may make great LOOKING games -- but severely lacks on A.I and physics.

So no wonder he thinks next-gen will not change anything, being texture-minded and all. And sales doesn't mean shit, look at COD for crying out loud.

I don't know where he's getting his info from but, all I've heard of the next gen consoles is the lack of pushing hardware. Look at Epic having to pressure them to at least equal last gen's leap.

Again, although I do highly respect the guy, he doesn't seem to be aware of physics and A.I. These areas can be improved incredibly, creating a foundation for potentially amazing new experiences. Plenty other areas that hardware can also allow for greater, and entirely new gameplay experiences.